(2021-01-08, 05:56 PM)Chewtobacca Wrote: Okay, so you've edited the wavs in another program.  The edited part of my previous post will get rid of the error message that VirtualDub2 is throwing.  BeHappy has the option to choose different types of input, including AviSynth, which is the default option; look under [1] Source in the GUI, ensure the input is set to AviSynth, and click on Add.

Thanks so much for this! I was able to run the script on BeHappy, and it looked like it did everything as it should have (7 channel flac), but then again the same weird thing happened. When I mux the file in and ran it on my MPC-HC player it read 7.0 instead of 6.1. So what could be the problem? Something is wrong with the channel mapping - LFE is not read properly? Would really appreciate your help.

6.1 FLAC rendered from BeHappy reads as 6.1 for me in eac3to.  Run eac3to on your exported file:


If it reads as 6.1, then the channel-mask should be correct, and it's a problem with MPC-HC.

You could try setting the channel-mask manually in BeHappy.  There's a checkbox called ChMask on the right of the GUI, which when checked allows you to enter a value.  Every channel has its own decimal value.

Quote:Speaker Position             Decimal Value
FRONT_LEFT                           1
FRONT_RIGHT                         2
FRONT_CENTER                     4
LOW_FREQUENCY                  8
BACK_LEFT                              16
BACK_RIGHT                            32
FRONT_LEFT_OF_CENTER    64
FRONT_RIGHT_OF_CENTER  128
BACK_CENTER                         256
SIDE_LEFT                                 512
SIDE_RIGHT                              1024
TOP_CENTER                           2048
TOP_FRONT_LEFT                   4096
TOP_FRONT_CENTER             8192
TOP_FRONT_RIGHT                16384
TOP_BACK_LEFT                     32768
TOP_BACK_CENTER               65536
TOP_BACK_RIGHT                  131072
RESERVED                               262144

Add up the decimal values of the channels that are present.  The total is the number of the channel-mask.  Enter that into BeHappy.

Also you could try rendering to other formats, e.g. w64, to see if the codec is the issue.  The Head box under ChMask enables you to set the header for w64 when you choose Wav Writer as the export format; save as whatever.w64.  You'll figure it out. 

EDIT:  W64 exported successfully as 6.1 from BeHappy as well (without the need to set a channel-mask) and was recognized as 6.1 by eac3to.  I've even split it back to wavs, and the channels are all correct.

EDIT: The issue is that tsMuxeR is reflagging the stream as 7.0.  If I export w64 from BeHappy without the channel-mask, tsMuxeR throws a warning:

Quote:Warning! Multi channels WAVE file for stream X do not contain channels configuration info. Applying default value: L R C BL BR SL SR

Adding the channel-mask clears the warning, but the output still reads as 7.0 in eac3to, so there must be an issue in tsMuxeR.  The same w64 muxed to MKV with MKVToolNix reads as 6.1 in eac3to, so it's not the file.

Okay, according to eac3to (and various online sources), 6.1 PCM is problematic for BD.  That must be the reason that tsMuxeR's output reads as 7.0.  It's been a while, but I remember that years ago madshi modified eac3to to account for issues with 6.1 PCM for BD.  What I suggest you do is convert the 6.1 to 7.1.


This will double the back channel and remap the surrounds, which is an accepted practice in the industry for converting 6.1 to 7.1.  It's not an upmix in the 2.0→5.1 sense.

I've tested this with tsMuxeR, and the result reads as 7.1.  This should solve your playback problem.

(2021-01-09, 07:17 PM)Chewtobacca Wrote: Okay, according to eac3to (and various online sources), 6.1 PCM is problematic for BD.  That must be the reason that tsMuxeR's output reads as 7.0.  It's been a while, but I remember that years ago madshi modified eac3to to account for issues with 6.1 PCM for BD.  What I suggest you do is convert the 6.1 to 7.1.

Code:

eac3to file.w64 file2.w64 -double7

This will double the back channel and remap the surrounds, which is an accepted practice in the industry for converting 6.1 to 7.1.  It's not an upmix in the 2.0→5.1 sense.

I've tested this with tsMuxeR, and the results reads as 7.1.  This should solve your playback problem.

Thanks so much! Will do just that. It's interesting though, that blu ray discs do have 6.1 layout in an .m2ts container - or 4.1 for that matter. Is it a common problem for a single back channel when you're fooling around with BD structure yourslef (as opposed to the commercially released BD?)

(2021-01-09, 09:36 PM)allldu Wrote: It's interesting though, that blu ray discs do have 6.1 layout in an .m2ts container - or 4.1 for that matter.

You can have 6.1 for DTS-HD MA, TrueHD, etc, but 6.1 PCM is considered problematic, which is not to say that some discs don't have it, or that it's out of spec (though madshi says here that it is).  What documents I've read discussing the spec are not completely clear: "up to 8 channels" might mean that 7.0 is accepted but that 6.1 is not; as I understand it, the confusion between 7.0 is 6.1 is what prompted eac3to's default behavior for PCM output.

Anyway, it's been years since all this was hashed out, and I forget the specifics.  I just remember that the received wisdom was either to convert 6.1 PCM to 7.1 for BD or to encode it to DTS-HD MA.

(2021-01-09, 11:34 PM)Chewtobacca Wrote:

(2021-01-09, 09:36 PM)allldu Wrote: It's interesting though, that blu ray discs do have 6.1 layout in an .m2ts container - or 4.1 for that matter.

You can have 6.1 for DTS-HD MA, TrueHD, etc, but 6.1 PCM is considered problematic, which is not to say that some discs don't have it, or that it's out of spec (though madshi says here that it is).  What documents I've read discussing the spec are not completely clear: "up to 8 channels" might mean that 7.0 is accepted but that 6.1 is not; as I understand it, the confusion between 7.0 is 6.1 is what prompted eac3to's default behavior for PCM output.

Anyway, it's been years since all this was hashed out, and I forget the specifics.  I just remember that the received wisdom was either to convert 6.1 PCM to 7.1 for BD or to encode it to DTS-HD MA.

Right, there's more than pcm out there  So, is there a free way to encode 6.1 pcm to DTS-HD MA? Can eac3to do it?

No, there's no free way. You have to use the encoding suite.

PCM has full range channels, hence no .1 - so PCM 7.1 is actually 8.0 as PCM 5.1 is 6.0

About 7 channels: PCM "base" is one channel; stereo is two mono interleaved, and multichannel is made up of stereo "pairs"; so odd channel configurations (except mono) are problematic - at least AFAIR - as much as 20 and 24 bits that are encoded in "fancy" ways.

(2021-01-10, 09:02 AM)spoRv Wrote: PCM has full range channels, hence no .1 - so PCM 7.1 is actually 8.0 as PCM 5.1 is 6.0

About 7 channels: PCM "base" is one channel; stereo is two mono interleaved, and multichannel is made up of stereo "pairs"; so odd channel configurations (except mono) are problematic - at least AFAIR - as much as 20 and 24 bits that are encoded in "fancy" ways.

Well, you still have to give the pcm a proper layout of channels for your AVR/player to read it

(2021-01-10, 11:39 AM)allldu Wrote: Well, you still have to give the pcm a proper layout of channels for your AVR/player to read it

I guess because PCM, as raw stream, has no header to tell anything...