It was not my intention to offend anyone. And it is not only about the LFE. The surrounds are flawed as well.

And btw, my point is not CDS mix vs. remix. The Laserdisc has the original mix, too (with drums at min 2). As far as I know it is the only release with correct LFE/surround channels featuring the original mix.

Even a flawed CDS mix is better than the remix. But it is interesting to know that the same CDS mix could even be better on the LD. Has that LD track ever been captured? Even better, synced to the 2015 Blu-ray? Since I'm currently working on a full color correction of T2, the time will come to consider the audio tracks to include with it, and that LD track would be a welcome addition.

Now I wonder about the CDS mix on the early Columbia-TriStar PAL DVD. Although it is of course a PAL sped up lossy Dolby 5.1 @ 384 kbps, it starts with the TriStar logo before Carolco, so the source could be different compared with other DVDs, and maybe the same as the LD...

These recent messages have got to be absolute funniest shit I've read on this forum in a minute lmao. The obsession with The Stats™ has gotta be the most counterproductive thing ever when people have spent probably close to 2 decades researching these mixes.

For starters, no CDS did not derive LFE from the surrounds like DTS, it supported fully discrete LFE. My personal theory is that the intial Theatrical mix just simply did the surrounds method and when the AC-3 LD came around they did a new discrete LFE, that's what happened with Jurassic Park. It only makes the most sense if all the releases with the Theatrical mix have while the ones known to be remixes don't. It's not "faulty" it's just how it was made. I also find all this LRA and other audio stat talk utterly pointless, it provides virtually nothing useful in terms of what mix is "better" or "theatrical" when it could really just be a encoding thing which is more than possible. In my own testing and research, the mixes on the JP and US DVDs are virtually the exact same. The US DVD is worse due to harder frequency cut off and is overall much more compressed. The JP DVD has much less compression and higher frequency detail. I've also tested both on my system and the JP is much more dynamic sounding regardless of the stats say.

IDK why this is a point of contention at all after the amount of research everyone has put into this mix. It's the same mix at the end of the day and If you prefer one or the other than so be it. This stats talk and baseless claims of one not being the same mix is just false and waste of time.

(Yesterday, 10:15 PM)Beber Wrote: Even a flawed CDS mix is better than the remix. But it is interesting to know that the same CDS mix could even be better on the LD. Has that LD track ever been captured? Even better, synced to the 2015 Blu-ray? Since I'm currently working on a full color correction of T2, the time will come to consider the audio tracks to include with it, and that LD track would be a welcome addition.

I have a cap of it, I have been meaning to sync it but have wanted to work on other things at the moment.

I just talked about it with Gemini. It tells me it's true that only the 1998 THX LD (and the squeeze LD in Japan, I think) have the real CDS mix, except compressed in the lossy Dolby format @ 384 kbps instead of the around 1.4 mbps of the original CDS format. Gemini tells me for the Live DVD and the Japanese DVD an error was introduced that wrongly conveyed the LFE to the surround channels in the early years of the digital mastering for DVDs (1997). The Japanese is based on the same flawed master as the Live, just encoded better at a higher bitrate. The LD was not impacted as the process for LDs had reached its maturity in 1998. It's the straight transfer of the original, including the TriStar logo opening! The CDS mix in DTS-HDMA on the French HD-DVD and early Blu-ray is not impacted either and the LFE is properly conveyed to the subwoofer, but it is filtered with noise reduction which is a bummer for fidelity even though it's labeled as lossless. As for the PAL Columbia-TriStar DVD, Gemini tells me it's an hybrid of the CDS mix and of the remix made in 1993 for the Special Edition. As for the French Ultimate DVD, it's not impacted either, but it’s PAL sped up. So basically, the best source in all its purity would be the 1998 LD that retains the proper surround and LFE. And the second best source would be the DTS HDMA from the French HD-DVD and its Blu-ray clone. I guess I'll need someone with experience to properly do the sync job from scratch from the unsynced capture of thecLD as I cannot do it on my own purely audiowise. My own sync jobs are image based, so I can do it on my own for the DTS-HDMA track if provided with the video stream attached to it.

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(11 hours ago)izzybell Wrote: These recent messages have got to be absolute funniest shit I've read on this forum in a minute lmao. The obsession with The Stats™ has gotta be the most counterproductive thing ever when people have spent probably close to 2 decades researching these mixes.

To which posts are you refering to? I didn't talk about stats at all. Beside using automatical analyses with my own tool I used Audacity and listening.

(11 hours ago)Beber Wrote: I just talked about it with Gemini. It tells me it's true that only the 1998 THX LD (and the squeeze LD in Japan, I think) have the real CDS mix, except compressed in the lossy Dolby format @ 384 kbps instead of the around 1.4 mbps of the original CDS format.

Don't believe Gemini or ChatGPT. They got their information from this thread. I could not find any other source with such a high level of detail other than this thread.

And its answer is clearly wrong: the french HD DVD and Blu-ray show the same flaws as the japanese and Live DVDs. They seem to be derived from the same source and only differ in LFE and surround levels.

Hello
Can you please have a look at this vid
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2RreENnjyI&t=1251s
This guy claims that the 1998 LD was direct port to the first dvd for the AC3 5.1

Yeah, Spencer is well known in these premises. He knows his stuff, but in this case, maybe he's wrong and just assumes, since both are close in time and early DVDs were frequently just that: the LD in a DVD format so to speak. And in this case, it's at least half true, as the DVD does have the CDS mix, but maybe a flawed version of it with an error introduced in the making of this DVD that, if true, Spencer might not know about.