We can't actually produce Blu-Rays

[Evit]

Take this as a late night rant of mine, call it my nervous breakdown. See it as me stomping on the ground ala Steve Martin. Rants are so rare coming from me (actually this is my very first) and I'm very sorry but I've been put down by the enormous waste of time of these past weeks, hours and hours spent pointlessly on glitchy authoring programs. F***k them!

As the title suggests, my open question is (and it's not a sarcastic question but a honest one): can anybody here ACTUALLY produce a proper Blu-Ray release? With a menu... no, forget even the damn menues... with frigging CHAPTERS? Becuse I sure couldn't, and I had no idea it was gonna be this difficult when I started my project. Here's me thinking the hardest part was to MANUALLY FIX OVER 150 FRAMES to obtain a better result than the commercially available "fixed release". But nooo...

Sure most of us enjoy our releases on digital files to store on hard disk, sure, I have three myself! But it looks like there is no way to make an actual blu-ray release and add to one's own collection, or am I overlooking something essential here?

Chapter markers have been my biggest burden in the last week. They basically have to be encoded within the video from the editing/exporting stage (in my case Premiere), after that comes the export to an uncompressed intermediate file that I then convert into a BR-compatible h264 file... but it's not like the h264 encoder cares to keep track of chapter markers, right? So I find myself with a 100 minute film and no chapters... and the best part is, they can't be added later! No, because no authoring program I tried so far can, becuse they are not encoded into the h264 file to begin with!
And the programs that COULD add chapter also insist on re-encoding the whole bloody film with their own generic presets, what's the point of passing through the x264 encoder to get the best quality if then I need to encode it again? I might as well use Adobe Premiere's terrible h264-BR output directly and settle for authoring it with a castrated bitrate on Encore, or Vegas, where a glitch prevents from loading chapters or save them and I haven't figured out which subtitle format CAN be used since none seem compatible.

I better chuck it here. If anyone has ever successfully created a blu ray with chapters from scratch and without having to re-encode the h264 file, do let me know.
As far as I know it's impossible, we simply can't add a single blu ray to our collections.

Good night, sorry for the breakdown.

[spoRv]

Well, in TSmuxeR you could add chapters... go to the Blu-ray tab, then copy&paste the text of your chapter file - that's it, it will not re-encode the video.

[Valeyard]

Bluray chapters are supposed to fall on keyframes. I'm not sure if it's mandatory like it is with DVD, but even if it isn't the authoring software might be expecting it, and that might be what is causing your problem. In order to achieve this you either need to open your AVC file in an editor that will show you where the key frame are and make your chapters accordingly, or make your chapters before encoding and include a file with the chapter list as described here so that all the frames that fall on chapters are encoded as keyframes.

[spoRv]

I guess if TSmuxeR is "smart" enough to put the chapter mark precisely at the key frame automatically...

[Booshman]

I've never heard of adding the chapters within Premiere. I make blurays in Encore, and add the chapters there so I can link them to the menu buttons. I have also used TSmuxer to alter the chapters after it has been built. What program are you authoring in?

Edit: I re-read your post and see you mentioned Encore. I use Encore and have a work around to avoid using the crappy transcode of the video it creates. I do an encode with TMPGEnc with the settings I need for quality and BD compatibility. I load that into Encore and (once I have finished the menus, button links added chapters, etc) let it process the video when building my disc. When the disc is built I then replace the video stream with TSmuxer. Open the main m2ts file, replace the video stream and mux with the "bluray disk" setting. Replace the orignial m2ts file in your bluray structure with the new one, also replace the clpi file that has the corresponding file name to your m2ts. (without this the disc won't play)

You can also use this method to replcace subtitles and audio.

[zoidberg]

I've always obtained working chapter marks (in TSmuxer) by importing an mkv of a blu ray rip that is synced to a custom, then replacing the video/audio. Most chapter stops are on a cut, doesn't x264 typically use keyframes for scene changes?

Edited to add software title

[Evit]

Valeyard, are you saying that if on tsMuxer I insert chapters on the exact timestamps that correspond to keyframes then chapters would automatically appear in the blu-ray structure?

you either need to open your AVC file in an editor that will show you where the key frame are

Any come to mind?

or make your chapters before encoding and include a file with the chapter list as described here so that all the frames that fall on chapters are encoded as keyframes.

Ok, this might need further explanation. If I'm reading it right, you have to make a txt file with frame numbers etc, then you insert the --qpfile in the command line (on pass-1, pass-2 or in both?), what happens afterwards?. Has anybody ever tried it?

I do an encode with TMPGEnc with the settings I need for quality and BD compatibility. I load that into Encore and (once I have finished the menus, button links added chapters, etc) let it process the video when building my disc. When the disc is built I then replace the video stream with TSmuxer. Open the main m2ts file, replace the video stream and mux with the "bluray disk" setting. Replace the orignial m2ts file in your bluray structure with the new one, also replace the clpi file that has the corresponding file name to your m2ts. (without this the disc won't play)

You can also use this method to replcace subtitles and audio.

There's something I'm not grasping, if you export your video file from Premiere with the TMPGEnc encoder (which, I read, uses the x264 engine... why is this the first time I hear about this??), and Encore then accepts this h264 file without wanting to re-encode it for authoring... why bother with tsmuxer at all and not just make a Blu-Ray via Encore, menus, chapter and all?

[Evit]

I've always obtained working chapter marks (in TSmuxer) by importing an mkv of a blu ray rip that is synced to a custom, then replacing the video/audio.

This is the thing, anyone who I read made chapters only managed to do so because was reusing pre-existing ones, but what if you are making a BR from scratch? I'm not working on a directy BD-rip since I had to re-cut and alter the length of the film for several reasons, this means I can't re-use chapter files from the original by simply muxing streams because they don't correspond.

Well, in TSmuxeR you could add chapters... go to the Blu-ray tab, then copy&paste the text of your chapter file - that's it, it will not re-encode the video.

Try it and tell me if it works.

[Booshman]

There's something I'm not grasping, if you export your video file from Premiere with the TMPGEnc encoder (which, I read, uses the x264 engine... why is this the first time I hear about this??), and Encore then accepts this h264 file without wanting to re-encode it for authoring... why bother with tsmuxer at all and not just make a Blu-Ray via Encore, menus, chapter and all?

I usually export to lossless avi from Premiere, then do the encode to mp4 with TMPGEnc to BD complaint spec. The resultant file is the one I will want to use, but Encore will want to rencode it. The workaround is to just let it do it's thing, and replace the video later with TSmuxer.

I have made 2 blurays from scratch with Encore, if that's what you're using, add your chapters there. You can't import chapters with Encore though, which sucks.

[Evit]

Can you explain to me how to encode uncompressed avi to h264 with TMPGEnc? I only found this website http://www.tmpgenc.net/en/download.html and their last update is from 2008, doesn't look like this software has been updated recently. Am I looking at the wrong website?