Same film, printed by two different makers...

[spoRv]

Just finished to watch National Treasure: Book of Secret (note: NEVER SEEN BEFORE, unbelievable! ) and I noted this:



As you can see, it was printed by Deluxe in US and Canada, and by Technicolor in the rest of the world.

Now, I wonder, can this make a difference? I mean, US (Canada) prints could have different color, contrast etc. compared to others?

[LucasGodzilla]

God, I haven't heard of this film in a long time. Wouldn't mind seeing it again with some friends maybe one day to see Nicholas Cage be Nicholas Cage.

On the topic of the prints though, I'd say it's unlikely there'd be many differences between prints. Given this movie came out in 2007, I'd be surprised if it's not a movie that utilized a digital intermediate as the final master, which would then be printed onto release print film stock for theaters (so if there would be any differences, they'd likely be fairly minor). I mean, I could be wrong, but that's just my educated guess.

[deleted user]

That'd be interesting to know. Certainly big differences in prints in different countries do sometimes (?) exist, as can be seen with the Spiderman WTC trailer for example, which looks green-ish in the US version apparently, but more reddish in the German version.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

International distribution units usually make their own Interpositive/DI (which also have noticeable differences in localized credits and distributor logos) and send them off to whichever film lab (sometimes based in the US) are contracted to make release prints for certain regions. In the case of the Spiderman WTC trailer TomArrow mentioned, Sony sent their 35mm master element to a US lab for release printing in the US. Columbia TriStar Film Distributors International made many localized versions of that trailer for European markets, and probably sent their master elements to film lab within Europe to create release prints for theaters.

[Valeyard]

Just finished to watch National Treasure: Book of Secret (note: NEVER SEEN BEFORE, unbelievable! ) and I noted this:

https://i.postimg.cc/J464pKyf/National-T...ecrets.jpg

As you can see, it was printed by Deluxe in US and Canada, and by Technicolor in the rest of the world.

Now, I wonder, can this make a difference? I mean, US (Canada) prints could have different color, contrast etc. compared to others?

Yes they can and that's very normal. Here's a print that's on ebay:



You can see this print was printed off "Internegative #3". What happens is they would make a bunch of internegatives for striking prints and send them off to film labs around the world to strike prints from. Possibly IN1 was the archival IN (if there was an archival IN) and IN2 was the one used to make US print. Also with Star Wars 1977 Technicolor had already ceased making dye-transfer prints in the US at the time:

https://youtu.be/g9S76vtk4Ro

So the majority of US prints would have been struck locally on Kodak Eastaman filmstock like the recent one on ebay with advanced vinegar syndrome. Some dye transfer prints would have been sent over from the UK and/or Italy though, but that's quite unusual. So you can have different film stocks for the same film - Fuji in the UK and Kodak in the US for example. There are different locally made film stocks available in other areas as well (including print film) such as Agfa in Germany and Tasma in Russia.

The Dutch prints I think were traditionally UK prints that were re-used in the Netherlands after subtitles were burned-in to the emulsion/dye.

[deleted user]

International distribution units usually make their own Interpositive/DI (which also have noticeable differences in localized credits and distributor logos) and send them off to whichever film lab (sometimes based in the US) are contracted to make release prints for certain regions. In the case of the Spiderman WTC trailer TomArrow mentioned, Sony sent their 35mm master element to a US lab for release printing in the US. Columbia TriStar Film Distributors International made many localized versions of that trailer for European markets, and probably sent their master elements to film lab within Europe to create release prints for theaters.

Interesting. Just to clarify, do you mean interpositive or internegative? I thought interpositive is the "master" so to speak with burned in color grading basically (of course the colors could still change in the further process, but the balance between the scenes would be set forth by the IP). At least that's how I understood it. I also remember Nolan advocating for IP scans for this reason since he considered them the final version of the film or sth.

The Dutch prints I think were traditionally UK prints that were re-used in the Netherlands after subtitles were burned-in to the emulsion/dye.

Oh really! Hmmm. Do you know any more about this process by any chance? I'm curious about that. Wonder if a similar technique could be used to add a DTS code to a movie that has none?

[pipefan413]

International distribution units usually make their own Interpositive/DI (which also have noticeable differences in localized credits and distributor logos) and send them off to whichever film lab (sometimes based in the US) are contracted to make release prints for certain regions. In the case of the Spiderman WTC trailer TomArrow mentioned, Sony sent their 35mm master element to a US lab for release printing in the US. Columbia TriStar Film Distributors International made many localized versions of that trailer for European markets, and probably sent their master elements to film lab within Europe to create release prints for theaters.

Interesting. Just to clarify, do you mean interpositive or internegative? I thought interpositive is the "master" so to speak with burned in color grading basically (of course the colors could still change in the further process, but the balance between the scenes would be set forth by the IP). At least that's how I understood it. I also remember Nolan advocating for IP scans for this reason since he considered them the final version of the film or sth.

Isn't that the point being made? If they all made their own separate interpositives off of the original neg (or I guess off a dupe but I imagine they'd avoid that generally), rather than just making internegatives off the same finalised interpositive, that would potentially introduce variations. I expect the different logos etc. must be done from "OCN" if they want consistency otherwise they'd presumably be making internegs then splicing into then with distributor logos.

So I think what @SpaceBlackKnight is saying is it would go something like

OCN -> various localised IPs -> enough INs to make however many prints desired -> release prints

[SpaceBlackKnight]

International distribution units usually make their own Interpositive/DI (which also have noticeable differences in localized credits and distributor logos) and send them off to whichever film lab (sometimes based in the US) are contracted to make release prints for certain regions. In the case of the Spiderman WTC trailer TomArrow mentioned, Sony sent their 35mm master element to a US lab for release printing in the US. Columbia TriStar Film Distributors International made many localized versions of that trailer for European markets, and probably sent their master elements to film lab within Europe to create release prints for theaters.

Interesting. Just to clarify, do you mean interpositive or internegative? I thought interpositive is the "master" so to speak with burned in color grading basically (of course the colors could still change in the further process, but the balance between the scenes would be set forth by the IP). At least that's how I understood it. I also remember Nolan advocating for IP scans for this reason since he considered them the final version of the film or sth.

It depends on what ever element the rights holder/distributor have or were able to get. It's usually an internegative, though sometimes it can be an interpositive or a duplicate negative. All of these are usually titleless/creditless so the international rights holder can create their own titles and whatnot. I think for bigger titles from the larger studios they do the localization and such at Hollywood or whatever lab they use out there.

Sometimes the overseas distributor creates their own regionalized titles (which can be completely different from the original/English ones) and logos on film as separate reels, and then ether the lab or the distributor at the release print distribution stage would splice/edit them in. But there are cases where they element they receive is only in original language/texts and don't always have the time or money to properly make "adjustments". In these instances the distributor would just add subtitles to the whole thing.

For completely digital productions (Attack of the Clones being one of the first) and DI's shot on film but edited/finished digitally, they would make a 35mm (positive or sometimes negative) filmout of the digital/DI element and ship it out to the lab to make release prints out of. This process can differ depending on rights holders and regions.

So I think what @SpaceBlackKnight is saying is it would go something like

OCN -> various localised IPs -> enough INs to make however many prints desired -> release prints

That's basically how it would go, but it also depends on the distributor and region, not to mention overall process/cost as well as film labs they farm out to.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

The Dutch prints I think were traditionally UK prints that were re-used in the Netherlands after subtitles were burned-in to the emulsion/dye.

Some countries also do this method for films that are to be shown in original language. For English/American titles shown theatrically in Japan, they get the 35mm prints and elements imported from the US and splice on a distributor logo+Japanese title screen reel on top of the print. Say JP theatrical showings of Toy Story (1995) would have something like:

JP distributor text notices and the logos themselves (Toho, Buena Vista International, etc)

Custom title screen of the feature (sometimes animated or also having custom made/alternate footage from the production)

Start of feature (sometimes having the US MPAA rating screen at the front before the opening Disney/original production company logo)