[versions] Vintage Clint Eastwood films original audio preservation

[Stamper]

Yes, the GBU is one ugly remix/redo! I didn't go into the Leone films because they are a mountain huge can of worms.

I'm wondering if like High Plains Drifter, the Hang 'em High Kino stereo track is not another case of the stems being stereo.

If they had access to the stems, and music & effects track are stereo, then doing a simple 2 tracks remix (vocals + M&E) will produce results close to the original, only in stereo. Trying to collapse this to mono, could however results in out of phase moments as the tape would be very old, and it's probably hard to align 100% of the dual channels of the M&E at this stage in time. Even a slight warp on the tape or small head misalignment would result in out of phase moments (like the ones during the store shoot out in The Enforcer remix, or the cafe shoot out in Sudden Impact in the remix).

Something that wouldn't be a problem back in the days as the tapes were pristine and they had analog consoles and pristine players with clean heads to fix any phasing moment on the spot.

So my guess about the absence of the lossless mono tracks on some Kino when they have stereo tracks is that the reason is technical, and they don't bother going back to the LDs to get the tracks because it's another full two days of work to rip lossless and resync.

At this point in time, LDs might thus be the best archival preservations of many mono tracks.

Once you have separate stereo elements, doing a 5.1 is then easy as the front work is already done: you have the vocals on center, and the stereo M&E where everything is already left right and phantom center. It's then just case of creating some rear echo, and adding some action moments in the lfe. Presto you have an impressive 5.1 track in the complete spirit of the original mix.

[weegee2392]

Shout version of HEH (Hang ‘Em High) Is the same master as the 2010 FOX release. That’s why the tracks sync up.
Same thing with the Kino High Plains Drifter, it came from the 2013 Universal release The French Mono track will probably sync up to it and maybe any sync up of the DVD mono.

[Stamper]

Once aligned, yes. In the case of Hang 'Em High as noted, there is no delay. For High Plains Drifter, there is. I didn't calculate the DVD sync for that one though as I lost the DVD during a move.

[NeonBible]

I synced the High Plains Drifter DVD to the earlier Blu-Ray (not the Kino) and from what I remember there were definitely different foley effects and mixing.

If the Kino 5.1 is the same audio as earlier Blu, then the 2.0 track is a downmix.

[Stamper]

Damn, lucky us, we have the DVD audio, and also Shatpack synced the french LD to the earlier release.

He even did same as I did a few years back, a french dub version akin to the american track where the stranger is not the brother of the sheriff.

Due to probably a wrong dialogue sheet sent to foreign countries, many foreign dubs (french, german) have Clint saying the sheriff was his brother in the end scene, ruining the film. This shows this was a last minute change. It's easy to swap the line with the same moment from the original audio as it's said offscreen. Thus original intent restored.

[ac3]

The ape movies have it the worst. New sfx everywhere.

Wouldn't say the amzns are low quality they are eac3 224 which is a Lil better than regular 192k ac3 and they usually don't do any filtering.

Also not on the list escape from alcatraz blu is 5.1 only luckily I got the old dvd from my local library it has the original mono.

[Stamper]

Oh yeah, forgot that one as I bought the DVD too for a couple of bucks! I didn't even bother to check it on Blu-ray. The DVD is a LD port. I just added it.

The Ape movies indeed have completely weird sounds effects, in the second one, Clyde tears apart a Cadillac. The new soundmix is like a kid found a cartoon sound library on the internet and added them to the film. It's completely ridiculous.

[Stamper]

Update of the update regarding Where Eagles Dare LOL

I compared all the dubs.

DTS-HD MA English 3403 kbps 5.1 / 48 kHz / 3403 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit) REMIX
Dolby Digital Audio French 192 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / DN -4dB / Dolby Surround REMIX
Dolby Digital Audio German 192 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / DN -4dB / Dolby Surround REMIX
Dolby Digital Audio Italian 192 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / DN -4dB / Dolby Surround REMIX
Dolby Digital Audio Spanish 192 kbps 2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / DN -4dB / Dolby Surround REMIX
Dolby Digital Audio Spanish 192 kbps 1.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / DN -4dB ORIGINAL MIX
Dolby Digital Audio Japanese 192 kbps 1.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / DN -4dB REMIX

It's fairly easy to tell what dub is based on the 5.1 remix: at about 1h40 in the film, where the intermission was to be, when Clint sets up the explosives and closes the door, there is a fade out of the music in the remix, to complete silence, with an out of sync added sound of the door closing. Then when we cut to Burton and co walking in the corridors, the music and soundtrack slowly fades in.

The segue of the music is perfectly done instead, in the Spanish Mono mix, and I managed to get hold of a TV airing with the original German mono mix, which as the exact same segue. Now, even better, I got hold of another 80's TV airing of the french dub, which is from an actual print scan. Though this moment is missing a few frames as it's at a reel change, the music segue is also the same.

Look at those gorgeous localised titles!:



So that makes 3 mono tracks, French (from TV VHS), Spanish (from the Blu-ray) and German (from recent TV rip), confirmed as original, with the segue being the same in all three. I'm just wondering the details of the source of the NTSC LD which is stereo, and lacks obviously the segue as it has the intermissions instead. (Though it might be possible to reproduce the segue by editing the music, it could take about 4 hours to achieve I guess, to sync it to the Blu-ray perfectly).

[wongfeihung]

Jeez, it's tough being a Clint fan with good ears! Has any star's back catalogue suffered worse aural buggery?

I think the IMDb is wrong when it lists Dolby Digital for Unforgiven. There's seems to have been only a 35mm release with Dolby Stereo. Not sure if that's 2- track or 4-track, but it's not 6-track.

Also, 4-track for The Gauntlet seems unlikely. No Dolby logo on the film, or poster or advertising (that I could find). The early VHS were apparently mono, and like Clint's other 70s (mono) films, Warner's 5.1 remixes contain new audio.

[Stamper]

Yes, the crazy thing is, most people don't care. You have several scenes with out of phase sounds in the remixes, and no one takes notice of this on the Blu-ray boards. However, the slightest alteration to a few shots colors get hundred of pages of disgruntled buyers!