The Terminator (1984) Chace "Fake Stereo" LD Analog

[jerryshadoe]

Ok, so I was looking at this thread, where PDB references an original thread over on OT, where this audio mix was mentioned. From what I read in that thread, MrBrown owns this laserdisc which is the Thorn/EMI version that has the "famous" Chace fake stereo audio which, even though NTSC, has typical PAL speed-up. Apparently, MrBrown captured the audio (although it may have been Stamper, correct me if I'm wrong) and then Stamper and DoomBot (both in separate PMs sent me the same links) sent me the unsynced audio. What I received is an AC3 file that has a bitrate of 224kbps. The audio track is in fact a stereo track, which means that the lddb entry about this disc containing a mono analog track is incorrect, as it is in fact an analog stereo track.

After using the "change speed" function in Audacity (which corrects speed AND pitch) applying the same settings as I always do when slowing down PAL audio to sync with NTSC material, the audio nearly automatically aligned with the LD PCM audio track that's posted here (which is synced to the 2013 remastered BD edition)

In process of going through the whole thing right now, as I still have to make sure it stays in-sync (already noticed a couple "extra frames worth of audio" around a couple scene changes) but this looks like it will be relatively straight-forward. Then I have to re-sync it at the side change, as well. The first thing I noticed about this capture, is that the audio is clipped at some points throughout the entire thing. Wondering if this is due to input levels being too high when capturing or whether this is a problem with the source just being clipped. Another thing I noticed is that there is a rather large noise plain. In the beginning, it was a little distracting and then gets better. Wondering also if I should post two different versions once I have it synced: one that is just a straight sync and one that is a synced and "cleaned" (read filtered, LOL) version..  ???

Depending on how much my daughters will distract me while I'm working on this, it shouldn't take me long to finish it

EDIT: Upon very careful inspection of this track, it is in fact a dual MONO track and the "fake stereo" is a misnomer. The mix is different in volume of sfx and dialog (seems much more pronounced) and, at times the sfx are timed +/-10ms different, plus there is some extra dialog heard here and there in the background (in the police station mainly) but it is definitely NOT a stereo mix, even a fake one. On numerous occasions I have seen fake stereo achieved by delaying the right track (in reference to the left one) by 5 to 10 ms, but this is not the case here. Also, the waveform for both channels is identical. Therefore, this LD is merely a different version of a mono mix

I am about have done with the sync now and am going to sleep. When I wake up, I should be able to finish it up before the day ends, so expect to see this available soon

[jerryshadoe]

Ok, I've had this synced for about a couple of weeks now and keep on forgetting to post it, LOL

Am rar'ing it and uploading to MEGA now, so expect to see a new thread (with links) sometime today

[MrBrown]

It is indeed only in mono on the disc,
sorry for that confusion, but it was my first LD to PC rip, I have ever done.
So I just plugged everything in, hit play and recorded. Seems as if my LD Player gives the Mono signal to both channels in normal configuration.

[jerryshadoe]

So I was right that this is, in fact, a mono mix but it IS different from the LD PCM mono mix.

Again, thanx for capturing the audio. It has helped us figure out that the "fake stereo" Chace mix is a myth (although if this is true, then where/why was this alternate made?) and provided us with an alternate mono mix which is pretty cool

As far as your capturing, I found it odd that the volume level on the right channel was nearly 2db higher on side A and about 1.5db higher on side B. Also, side B had some slight clipping on both channels, whereas side A had some slight clipping only on right channel. I adjusted the volume when syncing and evened the channels out but did nothing about the clipped audio. I tried to, but due to the low quality of the source (not your fault, just the nature of this disc) any attempts I made at fixing this resulted in further distortion so I decided to leave it "as-is." Don't know if this is due to your capturing technique or whether these are just the short-comings of source.

[MrBrown]

So I was right that this is, in fact, a mono mix but it IS different from the LD PCM mono mix.

Again, thanx for capturing the audio. It has helped us figure out that the "fake stereo" Chace mix is a myth (although if this is true, then where/why was this alternate made?) and provided us with an alternate mono mix which is pretty cool

As far as your capturing, I found it odd that the volume level on the right channel was nearly 2db higher on side A and about 1.5db higher on side B. Also, side B had some slight clipping on both channels, whereas side A had some slight clipping only on right channel. I adjusted the volume when syncing and evened the channels out but did nothing about the clipped audio. I tried to, but due to the low quality of the source (not your fault, just the nature of this disc) any attempts I made at fixing this resulted in further distortion so I decided to leave it "as-is." Don't know if this is due to your capturing technique or whether these are just the short-comings of source.

Maybe it once was a "stereo" mix, and for the LD it just got back to plain mono.

Mhm. Strange, but I have another Mono Disc, stated asDigital Mono (German "City of the Living Dead" LD from Astro) and I switched the Channels at the player, even if the source was stated as mono, there was a significant difference in Sound between left and right channel. Maybe my LD Player has some defect. The differneces were not as noticable with the Terminator LD.
One one hand, the different clipping semms to be odd, if they are source based (the LD is old), only if they are set up based (cable defect, LD Player.
I think it is a bit of both worlds, I am happy to have the Disc, it is not too bad shape, but it is not mint condition at all.

Too bad my Player does not give away much information on the "what the LD realy contain" side. With DVD and BD it is just better to scan the bitrates and source encodings...

[jerryshadoe]

That would be very strange if they turned a mono mix into a "stereo" mix, just to release that "stereo" mix as a mono mix, LOL

However, it's very possible that this is exactly what happened, who knows.

As far as your player is concerned, I only mentioned the volume levels so that you can check to see if you are having problems with your LD player. The best way to check this is to pop in an LD that you know has a stereo PCM track and then try to capture it. If the levels are relatively even, then it's just a problem with how your player is playing the mono track when "upmixing" to the 2 channel output, BUT if they are still off like when you are playing the mono LDs, then that means that you have a problem with the audio output

I suggest checking this before it becomes a problem (if it is an issue with the connection) I assume you already checked your cables to make sure that everything is good there

[MrBrown]

Shouldn't this thread get moved to the "released" subforum?

[jerryshadoe]

Could one of the admins please move this thread to the released category?

Thanx

[Feallan]

Done

[jerryshadoe]

Thanx