Here's a brief clip comparing the Criterion Blu-ray and the recent Kino 4K.  Only a minute but shows everything you need to know:
https://files.catbox.moe/4sjymi.mp4

The Kino people did nothing right with the audio. Just wondering if anyone has gone back to LDs, etc. to see if the sound is any better there; the Criterion is missing a lot of detail also.

I remember people saying the Eureka blu was worse than the Criterion blu. I assume Eureka and Kino both used the same poor audio track supplied by MGM

FWIW here's what interdude says on RuTracker:

interdude Wrote:[*]DVD (Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer) - ScreaminJay @ ptp: Source - Retail MGM DVD NTSC Region 1;
[*]BD (Criterion) - ambiguous but interesting studio restoration;
[*]The English track from Kino Lorber has been removed - the worst quality. In fact, it's the same DVD (Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer), only heavily filtered;

I would say the MGM DVD's audio is best. Although a bit on the tinny side, at least it isn't smothered in NR.

Lucidae -- how does the DVD compare to the Criterion? I am thinking particularly of how smothered the music is on the Kino. Is MGM's original DVD that much better?

(2023-06-27, 12:58 AM)Lio Wrote: Here's a brief clip comparing the Criterion Blu-ray and the recent Kino 4K.  Only a minute but shows everything you need to know:
https://files.catbox.moe/4sjymi.mp4

The Kino people did nothing right with the audio. Just wondering if anyone has gone back to LDs, etc. to see if the sound is any better there; the Criterion is missing a lot of detail also.

The Criterion LD sounds better than the Kino UHD but the MGM dvd still sounds the best with the least noise reduction. This did get an early VHS release (83) but unfortunately, it was 1 year before Hi-Fi was available so it probably sounds poor even if the underlying source was good. There was a CED release in 83 though so if source there is good, that could be the best sounding option but I haven't gotten around to picking up a player yet. There's also a late issue JPN LD with a digital track but it's pretty spendy. I'll try and at least pick up the 90 VHS for cheap to see how it sounds.

I've never heard audio from a CED before. Would it even be better then a non Hi-Fi VHS?

(2023-06-29, 02:54 PM)stwd4nder2 Wrote: I've never heard audio from a CED before. Would it even be better then a non Hi-Fi VHS?

CED is honestly pretty good sound quality. Much better than I ever expected. I've been unable to find actual specifications for it though but it seems like it's much closer to VHS Hi-Fi than linear or analog LD but not 100% sure. There's actually a couple CED recordings on archive.org that were captured with a domesday if you want to take a listen:
https://we.tl/t-DbPsRzh0We

Here's a section of one:
https://i.imgur.com/6umDbqJ.png