Looking at this cap I'd say the Shout has the correct ratio (Haddonfield text looks stretched on the older release) but the encoding and colour looks better on the older release (I remember bumping the saturation up on my TV a bit the last time I watched it though).

https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=684...0&i=2&go=1


I guess there's no perfect release unfortunately.

I kind of like the higher saturation although I have no idea if it is accurate or not.

(2023-12-02, 12:48 PM)alexpeden2000 Wrote: Looking at this cap I'd say the Shout has the correct ratio (Haddonfield text looks stretched on the older release)

Why do you reckon the old one is stretched based on that sign? It could be just as likely that the new one is stretched in the other dimension, no? My suspicion is that the new one might be more correct though. Certain shots on the 2013 version give me vaguely "Why the long face?" vibes if I really stare at them with intent, but I dunno, really.

(2023-12-02, 12:48 PM)alexpeden2000 Wrote: but the encoding and colour looks better on the older release (I remember bumping the saturation up on my TV a bit the last time I watched it though).

You think so? I would say that on the contrary, the new one looks a lot more natural, colour-wise. Skin tones are all very "beige", a bit jaundiced, on the 2013 release but they have much healthier looking rosiness to them on the new one: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=600...0&i=5&go=1. The 2013 one is also very desaturated as you say. That said, I think (other than perhaps the lack of saturation) the colour on the 2013 one might better match my recollection of a 35 mm print I've seen a couple of times, though not very recently. If I ever get a chance to see it again, I can confirm that.

Incidentally, the UHD and 1080p discs appear to be significantly different, if caps-a-holic is at all accurate for the UHD screenshots. This seems to be a pattern I see in almost every UHD I look at: the 1080p versions always end up with a comparative imbalance of warm tones, ending up leaning too much into magenta: https://caps-a-holic.com/c.php?a=1&x=592...0&i=5&go=1. I had a bit of a rant about it ages ago over in the thread about RipBot264 tonemapped conversions (in particular with respect to "fushia Spidey" and Hellboy, as well as a magenta push on my 1080p-only-but-released-from-a-UHD-master The Dark Crystal). I'm hoping to attempt to figure out a workflow for converting HDR UHD encodes to SDR 1080p encodes that have colour somewhat more accurately matching the UHD than the actual 1080p discs included with them represent.

(2023-12-02, 12:48 PM)alexpeden2000 Wrote: I guess there's no perfect release unfortunately.

As somebody with about 6 copies of this film on my shelves, I hear ya. Two LaserDiscs, at least two DVDs, and then the Blu-rays. I don't have the UHD yet; apparently the UK only got it as a Zavvi-exclusive steelbook that's obviously now out of print, there is no standard version, and this predates the US one so I think it's more likely equivalent to the French UHD presentation which is (I think) off the older master rather than the newer Cundey-approved Scream Factory version from 2021.

(2023-12-02, 03:37 PM)PDB Wrote: I kind of like the higher saturation although I have no idea if it is accurate or not.

Highly subjective, but my instinct is that the slightly higher saturation is correct (it's crazy low on the 2013 release) but the slightly more naturalistic colour palette possibly is not. At least, if we're considering a theatrical print as "correct", which I assume we are. That said, I think I might like the somewhat more naturalistic colour on the new presentation, correct or otherwise. I would still prefer to attempt to confirm whether it is more or less representative of the original '78 look, regardless of whether I think it looks good or bad.

What's funny about this is that Dean Cundey apparently personally approved all of these radically different presentations, and that was used as a selling point on each one at the time, implying that his approval made them definitive Even the THX one, which was clearly revisionist (trying to cover up the fact they were shooting a film set in autumn at the peak of summer). I don't totally hate the faux-autumnal look, but it fundamentally contradicts my idea of how a film "should" be presented, unless a less revisionist alternative presentation is also being made available in the same box.

(2023-12-02, 08:15 PM)pipefan413 Wrote: I'm hoping to attempt to figure out a workflow for converting HDR UHD encodes to SDR 1080p encodes that have colour somewhat more accurately matching the UHD than the actual 1080p discs included with them represent.

If your goal is to do a comparison between HDR and SDR encodes, I think tonemapping SDR to HDR would be a better and more accurate way to compare (outside of course having two identical and calibrated screens side-by-side)

(2023-12-02, 08:50 PM)stwd4nder2 Wrote: If your goal is to do a comparison between HDR and SDR encodes, I think tonemapping SDR to HDR would be a better and more accurate way to compare (outside of course having two identical and calibrated screens side-by-side)

Well, no, not really: my goal is to have 1080p encodes that I can watch on a 1080p SDR DLP projector, which don't have their colour balance skewed toward magenta. Of course, determining what tonemapping is most true to source when doing the HDR to SDR is not necessarily straightforward.

pipefan413 Wrote: What's funny about this is that Dean Cundey apparently personally approved all of these radically different presentations, and that was used as a selling point on each one at the time, implying that his approval made them definitive Even the THX one, which was clearly revisionist (trying to cover up the fact they were shooting a film set in autumn at the peak of summer). I don't totally hate the faux-autumnal look, but it fundamentally contradicts my idea of how a film "should" be presented, unless a less revisionist alternative presentation is also being made available in the same box.

Believe it or not, I don’t think Cundey was wrong on the THX. I applied my CRT LUT to that DVD a long time ago and it looks a lot like the other transfers. More cool and green than the natural. warmth of the DVD. I think the look was not an attempt to make it look seasonal but just the CRTs of the time.

(2023-12-03, 01:47 AM)PDB Wrote: Believe it or not, I don’t think Cundey was wrong on the THX. I applied my CRT LUT to that DVD a long time ago and it looks a lot like the other transfers. More cool and green than the natural. warmth of the DVD. I think the look was not an attempt to make it look seasonal but just the CRTs of the time.

Really? That surprises me, given how much of a noticeable yellowish "signature" look it has and that signature doesn't really look like other DVDs mastered for CRTs around the same period in time. It's generally consistent enough that I can usually eyeball a transfer and guess that it's probably the way it is for that reason, but I didn't at all get that impression from the Halloween DVD. I should try that out. But yeah, it's warmer colours that are pushed, but in my experience those warmer tones are more (noticeably) toward the reddish/magenta end rather than the orange/yellow bit of the spectrum. I haven't played around with your LUT though!

(2023-12-03, 01:18 AM)pipefan413 Wrote:

(2023-12-02, 08:50 PM)stwd4nder2 Wrote: If your goal is to do a comparison between HDR and SDR encodes, I think tonemapping SDR to HDR would be a better and more accurate way to compare (outside of course having two identical and calibrated screens side-by-side)

Well, no, not really: my goal is to have 1080p encodes that I can watch on a 1080p SDR DLP projector, which don't have their colour balance skewed toward magenta. Of course, determining what tonemapping is most true to source when doing the HDR to SDR is not necessarily straightforward.

In that case, have you tried picking up a shield? I use it for streaming my UHD rips to the spare TV, and I think it does it pretty great job at real time HDR to SDR tonemapping.

(2023-12-03, 05:40 PM)stwd4nder2 Wrote: In that case, have you tried picking up a shield? I use it for streaming my UHD rips to the spare TV, and I think it does it pretty great job at real time HDR to SDR tonemapping.

Good to know, but no, I haven't. I can't even afford a UHD-capable drive to rip with, never mind a Shield on top of that, hahah. Perhaps one day I will investigate, though. Ta.

EDIT: ... I wonder if I could stream the output of a Blu-ray player to the Shield and have the Shield do the tonemapping etc.? Probably not, I guess, but I'm wondering anyway. Seems to only have one HDMI port, so presumably not.

(2023-12-03, 09:44 PM)pipefan413 Wrote: EDIT: ... I wonder if I could stream the output of a Blu-ray player to the Shield and have the Shield do the tonemapping etc.? Probably not, I guess, but I'm wondering anyway. Seems to only have one HDMI port, so presumably not.

In theory, you could probably use some HDMI over IP device to do this. But at that point you'd be paying more then just getting a UHD capable drive.