[Proposal] Nightbreed (1990) [Project: Celluloid]

[LucasGodzilla]

So the other day after hearing there was the new three-hour long "Ultimate Cabal Cut" coming out, I decided to actually sit down and check the Director's Cut Shout! Factory had released that preceded the Cabal Cut Blu-Ray Seraphim did. Apart from noticing the obvious discontinuity resultant of still missing footage at the time, something kind of caught my eye throughout. The film was, well, looking an awful lot like Arrow's Hellraiser transfer. There were numerous instances where I felt that the lighting was a bit too revealing and times where I noticed blue patches in a neutral looking scene. Doing a bit of poking around, I found out that this movie was shot by the same cinematographer who did Hellraiser. On top of that, I found something rather interesting.

A trailer of the movie that's not only darker but far bluer than any transfer I've ever seen.

At first, I thought it was a mistake, especially with the text being blue for the most part. However, the more I kept re-watching the trailer and watched other trailers, the more I began to suspect that this was how it was originally intended. The text, in the end, is white which leads me to believe the blue text was intentional and not a flaw.

I also saw the same trailer which was sourced from an Australian VHS which blanket tinted everything in a colder color scheme.

For comparison's sake, here's a Polish version of the same trailer that's more akin to the colors of the current version of the movie (less blues, more natural / neutral).

So although I do not know where the trailer Deathtrap posted on YouTube originated from, I strongly believe that it is the closest thing I've got at this current point in time to recreate the original color scheme. Sure, it may not be some fancy scan of the trailer and nor do trailers typically showcase the most accurate of colors in comparison to the final project, however without any proper scans of 35mm film cells floating around apart from some display cases (which I'd rather not touch for several reasons), I believe the trailer is the closest thing to the originally intended color scheme.

So with everything in mind, I currently am thinking of attempting to regrade imitating the trailer to give the movie to reinstate some of those classic Barker-esque blues. I believe it'd be better than my Hellraiser grade since the trailer showcases clips from practically every major setting so it'd be more encompassing than the limited scans stills I had for that project. As such, this will allow me to create more consistent LUTs to apply to scenes throughout the movie.

I plan on eventually regrading the Ultimate Cabal Cut once that comes out, but at this very moment, I've only got my Shout! Factory Blu-Ray. Thankfully, it seems that they would share the exact same color scheme since it was produced by the same company (Seraphim), so hopefully that won't put a hitch in the project when that three-hour cut comes around.

I haven't actually started on this project yet though since I still need to fix up the Hellraiser grade and I'll be busy for the next few days due to other real-life priorities, so for now, I'll just leave this as a proposal thread. I also would like to ask if some of you have any better sources to base the grade off of (like actual scanned stills or a higher quality trailer that doesn't have the flat color scheme). So do tell though, what do y'all think?

[Turisu]

I'd be really interested to see the theatrical cut with a 35mm colour grade. A lot of the extra stuff from the DC (particularly the ending) just didn't sit right with me. I really do love Nightbreed but it will always be a flawed movie. Adding more footage just makes it a longer flawed movie.

[LucasGodzilla]

I'd be really interested to see the theatrical cut with a 35mm colour grade. A lot of the extra stuff from the DC (particularly the ending) just didn't sit right with me. I really do love Nightbreed but it will always be a flawed movie. Adding more footage just makes it a longer flawed movie.

I'll probably end up doing the theatrical cut first since it'd be shorter and easier to skim through for the frames shown in the trailer. From there I'll probably just wait for the Ultimate Cabal Cut (which I hope will do a better job implementing the excised footage than the Director's Cut).

I have to ask though, seeing that you're from UK, there is a 35mm theatrical screening of the movie at Shelley Theatre in England. I know it's presumptuous that you live anywhere near there, but I thought it'd be worth to at least bring up.

I kind of wonder if there's a way someone who could attend can somehow get a good recording of the projection (if it's even possible to have a good quality theater recording) or somehow talk to the owner of the print to make some scans (of course the chance of either occurring is near zilch).

[crampedmisfit1990]

All this is really interesting. You mention regrading the theatrical cut, do you have the theatrical Blu-ray?

[Turisu]

Glad to hear that you're considering the theatrical cut for a regrade.

The Shelley Theatre is about 3 hours away from me. So theoretically it wouldn't be entirely out of the question to attend the screening (and believe me; I would love to). I suspect that family and work commitments will ultimately torpedo the idea but I'll see what I can do. I don't see any mention on the site of the condition of the print though. Is it possible that it could be faded beyond the point of being a useful colour reference?

[LucasGodzilla]

All this is really interesting. You mention regrading the theatrical cut, do you have the theatrical Blu-ray?

I believe I should. Admittedly, I've never actually taken the time to watch the original theatrical cut but since I do have the Shout! Factory blu-ray of the movie, I believe the Theatrical Cut was also an included viewing option. I hope I'm right, but if not, then my bad. Worst comes to worst, I may just do the initial regrade on the Director's Cut or just poke around the internet for a lossless rip of the Theatrical Cut. Either way, I'll definitely be ripping my copy the first chance I get.

Glad to hear that you're considering the theatrical cut for a regrade.

The Shelley Theatre is about 3 hours away from me. So theoretically it wouldn't be entirely out of the question to attend the screening (and believe me; I would love to). I suspect that family and work commitments will ultimately torpedo the idea but I'll see what I can do. I don't see any mention on the site of the condition of the print though. Is it possible that it could be faded beyond the point of being a useful colour reference?

I would have to say that it should highly depend on the very basic fact of whether or not it'd be possible to get any scans or images or recordings of the print at all to begin with, especially since I mainly said all of that as food for thought rather than an actual likely solution since one would have to not only negotiate with the owner of the print, but one would also have to discuss the likely fees that'd come with it and all. I mean don't get me wrong, if somehow something can be worked out that isn't outrageous or anything, that would be amazing, but I wouldn't count on it.

So with that all being actually said, if the print is faded, I know it is possible to adjust and repair fading with software nowadays, but it all heavily depends on what one would have to work with. If it's a theater recording, it'd likely be of little use I imagine, but if it's something scanned, it should be fixable. I have to say though, for such an event with an actor Q&A, I would be surprised to find out it's a particularly crappy print being screened (but idk).

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see. If I were you, I would try to go simply for the experience in itself–supposing nothing problematic comes up. If something can be brought back that'd be beneficial for this, then that'd be extremely sick.

I also would like to mention that is some random person here who somehow has (or knows who has) that "JohnCarpenterFan situation" and came across a well-preserved print and was able to get scanned stills, I'd be interested in checking it out.

[LucasGodzilla]

So bad news, it seems that my Blu-Ray ripping program is not working. On top of that, I realized that although I do have the Blu-Ray for the movie, it is actually just the Director's Cut only which is rather unfortunate. So at this point, all I can really say is, if you've got a lossless version of the Theatrical (or any version for that matter), send it my way if possible, please?

I'll see if I can rip the DVD and work off of that for making the LUTs (which will likely be easier in terms of size dimensions for the color comparison too) and then I'll work on actually regrading the movie when I can get my hands on a high-def file of it.

On the bright side, the DVD does have that same colored trailer posted by Deathtrap, so I have a slightly better source to work off of.

---

On a further update, I took a closer look at the trailer (and also made a white balance curve tweak) and I noticed some shots were differing from the Director's Cut. I am unsure if this is due to the trailer utilizing unused footage or if it's Theatrical Cut exclusive footage (which I do not have access to). However, I did at least find one frame that I was able to color compare that occurred from the first murder sequence.

Quality is not perfect since I re-graded a snapshot from the DVD, but it gets the point across.

However, this does leave me at a predicament since I can't encompass everything shown in the trailer due to simply not having the footage at hand. Again, I don't suppose anyone has the Theatrical Cut handy?

[Turisu]

The theatrical cut was only included in a limited edition set which is no longer available. The full BD of the theatrical cut was on the spleen some time ago. I grabbed it then but ended up encoding to x264 and that mkv is all I have now. I guess chances are it's no longer seeded.

Some theatrical footage was removed for the DC.

[crampedmisfit1990]

Ok, I own the limited edition set that includes the Theatrical cut disc as a bonus and I happen to have it ripped in iso form on my pc. I recently got a huge HDD and have been ripping all my blu-rays to make my gaming pc a media center as well and I already ripped this disc luckily. I will gladly send you a link to get a copy soon as I get home Friday night. That way you get the full quality rip from me and can regrade (imo) the best version of Nightbreed. Love the Director's cut but prefer the Theatrical overall.

[LucasGodzilla]

Ok, I own the limited edition set that includes the Theatrical cut disc as a bonus and I happen to have it ripped in iso form on my pc. I recently got a huge HDD and have been ripping all my blu-rays to make my gaming pc a media center as well and I already ripped this disc luckily. I will gladly send you a link to get a copy soon as I get home Friday night. That way you get the full quality rip from me and can regrade (imo) the best version of Nightbreed. Love the Director's cut but prefer the Theatrical overall.

Thank you very much. Earlier today I got my hands on the cut provided by Turisu (whom I thank very greatly), but seeing as how your rip should be lossless, I would love to be able to work with that instead.

Having said that, I thought I should give y'all a quick peek into what I've got so far.

A shame that there are two frames I came across that I really want to copy the colors off of from the trailer that just simply seem to be cut from the final cut in all versions of the movie.

The shot was replaced with an alternate take in both the Theatrical and Director's Cut (Which is a shame since I like the trailer version better).

 

There was also this shot which was completely cut. I did find the scene in the BTS documentary, but it was a different take and couldn't have been matched up (and I couldn't find the frame for the life of me which is funny since I know I saved it on my PC but then ended up completely deleting it which is why you have a video there instead lmao; Check it out at 22 seconds).

Either way, I'm getting some headway. I've still got to finish making frame comparisons for the rest of the trailer and then make several compilation grades for specific settings before I can move onto actual regrading (Guess it's no longer a proposal at this point anymore lol).