Posts: 896
Threads: 162
Joined: 2015 Apr
Thanks: 224
Given 490 thank(s) in 258 post(s)
Country: 
2021-08-22, 02:15 AM
(This post was last modified: 2021-08-22, 03:15 AM by bendermac.)
The movie was recently released in Germany by Turbine Media with a new Dolby Atmos and Auro-3D mix. They didn't include the original mix, instead opted for a DTS 2.0. No information what the mix is based. But since the movie was a native 5.1 mix I don't really care for 2.0 mix 
So here a the info if you want to add the original mix to the new Blu-ray, if you have it
European BD by Universal: No adjustment needed
North American BD by Warner Bros: delay of -959ms
As a bonus, here are the spectrum for the audio streams
EU Blu-ray Universal - DTS-HD MA 5.1 24bit
![[Image: lT0YHWu.png]](https://i.imgur.com/lT0YHWu.png)
US Blu-ray Warner Bros - Dolby TrueHD 5.1 16bit
![[Image: bQnwISp.png]](https://i.imgur.com/bQnwISp.png)
DE Blur-ay Turbine Media - DTS-HD MA 7.1 Auro-3D
![[Image: 0ktRSjW.png]](https://i.imgur.com/0ktRSjW.png)
Posts: 283
Threads: 17
Joined: 2018 Jun
Thanks: 218
Given 74 thank(s) in 52 post(s)
Country: 
I wonder if the DTS 2.0 Mix is the same mix from the VHS/Laserdisc version?
Posts: 49
Threads: 7
Joined: 2019 Nov
Thanks: 56
Given 42 thank(s) in 12 post(s)
Country:
Dolby Stereo IS surround that unfolds to multiple speakers, so it probably is the theatrical track. Would be cool to compare the two.
Posts: 492
Threads: 22
Joined: 2017 Dec
Thanks: 51
Given 244 thank(s) in 167 post(s)
Country:
Twister was mixed 5.1 native so the 5.1 tracks are the DD/DTS mixes (with small volume tweaks for near field home video application).
Like other tentpoles of this era, there were Dolby Stereo analog mixes made for theaters without digital sound and for TV/video usage. Since Turbine try to include as many mixes as possible and don't usually resort to folddowns, the DTS 2.0 might be authentic.
Posts: 7,153
Threads: 601
Joined: 2015 Jan
Thanks: 1081
Given 1466 thank(s) in 963 post(s)
Country: 
It was originally mixed in 5.1, BUT... were the DD, DTS and SDDS the same mix? And, if not, which one were used for this last release?
Posts: 492
Threads: 22
Joined: 2017 Dec
Thanks: 51
Given 244 thank(s) in 167 post(s)
Country:
2021-08-30, 04:30 AM
(This post was last modified: 2021-08-30, 04:33 AM by SpaceBlackKnight.)
(2021-08-29, 08:48 PM)spoRv Wrote: It was originally mixed in 5.1, BUT... were the DD, DTS and SDDS the same mix? And, if not, which one were used for this last release?
Dolby Digital and DTS theatrical mixes were made from the same uncompressed master mix tapes. The differences between them would be volume levels (to avoid distortion or range loss during compression) and bitrate (theatrical DD was actually 384kbps whereas DTS ranged from 768-1411kbps). SDDS OTOH, wasn't really documented well and the tracks themselves varied on a title by title basis. But according to some in the industry who worked on or engineered them, they were totally different beasts than DD/DTS and often had expanded custom tracks made specifically for SDDS prints. These mixes were made from the master recording materials and I believe they added/changed out SFX (not heard anywhere else) from a "SDDS sound library" to expand the sound field for 8 channels.
Nearly all SDDS master mixes created for tentpoles like this were not kept, as most studios always work from original recording elements (when available/surviving) and saw "no need" to preserve elements for a failed sound format (that ended up getting phased out by 2007, the last to use it was Surf's Up). Prints out there with SDDS tracks are extremely rare, and the equipment to play/transfer them are almost non-existent due to only industries/theaters having such equipment and most likely discarding them after they stopped offering SDDS or shut down.
Posts: 49
Threads: 7
Joined: 2019 Nov
Thanks: 56
Given 42 thank(s) in 12 post(s)
Country:
(2021-08-29, 07:28 PM)SpaceBlackKnight Wrote: Twister was mixed 5.1 native so the 5.1 tracks are the DD/DTS mixes (with small volume tweaks for near field home video application).
Like other tentpoles of this era, there were Dolby Stereo analog mixes made for theaters without digital sound and for TV/video usage. Since Turbine try to include as many mixes as possible and don't usually resort to folddowns, the DTS 2.0 might be authentic.
The 2.0 wouldn't be a fold down though, it would have been matrixed surround.
Posts: 7,153
Threads: 601
Joined: 2015 Jan
Thanks: 1081
Given 1466 thank(s) in 963 post(s)
Country:
As there were SDDS-8 and SDDS-6 mixes, the former were made "in house" at Sony, while the latter AFAIK still in house if production was Sony/Columbia, or just converted from the "main" mix that was sent to Dolby and/or DTS.
Again AFAIK no 6 (5.1) track was "upmixed" to 8 (7.1) - the contrary was true, were SDDS 8ch were folded down to 6ch - on the fly by the SDDS converters or in studio.
It is unknown how each movie released in SDDS-8 used the fold-down mix - I mean, in which percentage the LC RC channels were mixed in.
Posts: 630
Threads: 88
Joined: 2019 Jan
Thanks: 546
Given 834 thank(s) in 341 post(s)
Country:
2021-10-06, 04:41 AM
(This post was last modified: 2021-10-06, 04:43 AM by borisanddoris.)
Just to clarify: prints with SDDS 8 were backwards compatible with auditoriums that only had 6 channels. Any folding down was done in the processor. Now I would assume the mix was different for those titles with 8 channels but to what degree is all conjecture unless we get someone at Skywalker Sound or Sony on the line. As for Dolby Digital and DTS, I don’t know if they were the same mixes for films that featured both tracks. Again, it’s all conjecture without a good source from within the studio. I do know in blind testing amongst the three, on a proper system, no one can tell the difference. I sure couldn’t when I took part in a test.
SDDS had the theoretical edge since it used the least compression and offered the most channels but it was more susceptible to film damage and errors. DTS also used little compression (882kbps) but was 5.0 on disc with the LFE mixed into the surrounds to save space. The processor naturally extracted so you end up with 5.1 in the house.
Dolby is the real miracle here. 35mm version of it ran lower than home variants (~320kbps) and yet it sounded amazing in house. AC3 is an amazing codec. Yep. Theatrical DD uses the same codec we all know and love.
As for Twister, I think prints were quad track (all three digitals plus SR analog). Definitely SRD and DTS though. It would be a good case study if one could capture them all and compare. I saw it in DTS and it was a phenomenal experience. The AC3 LD has been my go to for years and it never disappoints.
Posts: 7,153
Threads: 601
Joined: 2015 Jan
Thanks: 1081
Given 1466 thank(s) in 963 post(s)
Country:
Talking in general about theatrical tracks, and not this title in particular:
AFAIK the SDDS-8 mixes were not made from 6-track and "enhanced", but made specifically for 8 channels - at least reading some interviews made to audio technicians at the time; some put dialog in the LC RC channels, others prefer to put music; the SDDS-6 then was a folddown version; same for DTS and DD.
About 5.1 tracks: again AFAIK SDDS-6, DTS and DD all shared the same mix - it can't be different when more than one different format was printed on film, as the digital relies on analog track as backup if it fails somehow.
I mean, if the same film used DD and DTS and SDDS-6 (plus an analog track) on the same print.
If they print, let's say, DD prints and DTS prints, it can be possible that mixes are different - of course the analog track should use the same mix of the digital.
SDDS-6 IIRC used always 4 formats print.
|
