Midnight Run (1988) BD Stereo

[axeyou]

waveforms don't give you much info. you need to be looking at and comparing spectrograms.

Sorry, I meant what on the spectrogram would I be looking for to judge whether it's a downmix?

Re. Yarp's comments.

I’d be interested to learn as well.

On some Kino 4Ks, I’ve seen others folding down the included 5.1 tack to 2.0 and comparing that result’s waveform against the included 2.0. Wondering if there are other ways, unless the 2.0 & 5.1 clearly sound identical but different from previous 2.0s.

[Yarp]

Sorry, I meant what on the spectrogram would I be looking for to judge whether it's a downmix?

easiest way to tell visually is when they add foley. if you have a known older mix, and there's new sounds, like gunshots or something in the 5.1 and they appear in the 2.0 mix then you down it's either a downmix or maybe a completely different mix but not the original. you could also downmix the 5.1 track to 2.0 and see so it compares visually to the included 2.0 track. if it's a down mix it'd be close to identical in terms of range, noise etc. you just gotta get comfortable looking at spectrograms and you can see a lot in comparisons. doesn't show everything though. always best to try and level match and A/B compare with some good headphones.

[wongfeihung]

I find it very difficult to tell a downmix if there isn't anything new in the way of effects or music.

Even something missing can be hard to spot unless you're extremely familiar it.

That's why I was hoping waveforms would be useful in that regard.

It's tough relying on others (even those who may have the knowledge) because so few people seem interested and are happy to take whatever they get.

It can take months (or longer) before someone makes a useful comment and by that point you've already bought the damn thing!

Back to the waveforms... the titles that are likely or confirmed downmixes I find have a similar waveform appearance - they have a flat line on either side that they never stray beyond (if that makes any sense).

See image below:



And then compare it to the normal looking OG stereo:

[Yarp]

That's why I was hoping waveforms would be useful in that regard.

Back to the waveforms... the titles that are likely or confirmed downmixes I find have a similar waveform appearance - they have a flat line on either side that they never stray beyond (if that makes any sense).

i have tons of examples of completely different tracks that look near identical in waveform but sound completely different. those differences are almost always visible in a spectrogram though. there's just not much info that can be discerned from only waveforms. if you level match the 4k 2.0 mix i bet it looks a lot more similar.

i'd just spend some time poking around spectrograms and comparing some titles. it's not that hard to understand and shows you more of what's going on than waveforms or frequency plots.

if you send me the tracks you have, i can take a look and maybe track down a few others to compare.

[X5gb]

No need.

Its already confirmed ntsc dvd 2.0 is best so far until ld sound capture comes along to be compared.

[Yarp]

No need.

Its already confirmed ntsc dvd 2.0 is best so far until ld sound capture comes along to be compared.

FWIW, I ended up A/Bing a bunch of soundtracks for this. I compared the PAL DVD, NTSC DVD, HDDVD, Shout 4k (5.1 and 2.0), and the French Blu-ray (5.1 and 2.0) but didn't hear the German track. Adjusted for volume, they all sounded more or less the same to me. If I had to choose one I'd actually probably go with the French 2.0 mix as it sounded like it had a bit wider soundstage than the rest, but still a very minimal difference. They all sounded almost identical and looked almost identical in spectrograms.

[wongfeihung]

No need.

Its already confirmed ntsc dvd 2.0 is best so far until ld sound capture comes along to be compared.

FWIW, I ended up A/Bing a bunch of soundtracks for this. I compared the PAL DVD, NTSC DVD, HDDVD, Shout 4k (5.1 and 2.0), and the French Blu-ray (5.1 and 2.0) but didn't hear the German track. Adjusted for volume, they all sounded more or less the same to me. If I had to choose one I'd actually probably go with the French 2.0 mix as it sounded like it had a bit wider soundstage than the rest, but still a very minimal difference. They all sounded almost identical and looked almost identical in spectrograms.

But if the Shout 2.0 is a downmix shouldn't it sound (and look) diffferent from the other 2.0 mixes?

[wongfeihung]

Sorry for the bump.

But did we confirm that the Shout UHD's 2.0 mix was a downmix?

There's been a lot of false information going around.