Dolby matrixed audio on modern equipment

[captainsolo]

Hi all, I recently purchased the Onkyo TXNR626 refurbed from A4L. It does everything perfectly...that is except all my prized LD 2.0 matrixed tracks, or even DVDs in 2.0 surround with flags.
When I engage DPLII cinema or NEO:6 there is consistent channel bleeding from the center to the rears, and despite having better low end Neo: 6 tries to create a phantom rear center which makes it less useable than PLII.
I tried my old outboard DPLI decoders which only output RCAs and they work fine-only trouble is that the Onkyo only has a digital input!

I also found that the unit picks up on the Dolby surround flags but apparently there is no mode that will play them nor a direct auto format sensing mode like on my nearly 20 year old Sony receiver.

I guess I've got to go round with an SPL and set everything, but I just read that old DPL receivers actually cut power to the surrounds in PLI mode so that you got that proper center channel emphasis with only a minor emphasis on the mono rear.

Any suggestions? This is driving me nuts!

[spoRv]

While we are waiting for an answer from a tech-savvy user, I can say (almost for sure) that old DPL - or even Dolby Surround only - decoders are usually better than newer - the older, the better, a bit like us...

Take a look at this thread, could be interesting: Dolby Surround captured tracks - options

[captainsolo]

Agreed on all fronts. Both DPL2 and Neo 6 have severely disappointed me. But nothing seems to do old DPLI over a digital connection and that's what I need. No new unit has analog multi ins.

Grrr. I'd hate to send it back just because of this but it might just have to...or get a badass top of the line old late 90's model receiver just for DPL and LD.

[spoRv]

...or get a badass top of the line old late 90's model receiver just for DPL and LD.

That's the best solution, if you can afford it, and your partner could live with another futile audio/video/etc. gear...

[jerryshadoe]

I have found that YAMAHA systems from the early 2000s are the best of old and new worlds. They have optical in and out, they have old-school 6ch RCA inputs, (plus numerous others) and they come with DPL, DPLII, and some have Neo:6 as well. Only thing I wish they had was an HDMI input/output (the ones that do are new-school and you want to stay away from those because they are weaker system, with inferior sound overall compared to the older ones - even though a lot of them still outperform other systems) but if you're only using it for audio then it's pretty awesome. There are numerous models, some have multiple digital inputs which should suffice. They still have the older design and pack that old-school "punch" that newer system don't have, while still retaining proper fidelity, dynamic range, and channel configuration. You can find them on e-bay for around $100 and make sure you get one that HAS a REMOTE because you will need it to properly set the system up. I'm happy to throw some recommendations your way if you're interested.

EDIT: I have also noticed that in many cases using DPLII Music instead of Cinema (especially with Neo 6) creates better results. Granted, there might be a slight bleed of the center on the front channels (although in Neo 6, at least on my YAMAHA, it's sounds awesome) but the rear is usually separated better using Music versus Cinema. Has anyone else ever tried this?

[captainsolo]

I'd love recommendations but I just realized a major part of my problem. Apparently when setting up and removing all the Audyssey curve, Dynamic EQ crud the speaker levels all got zeroed out again instead of being at the set reference levels from the Audyssey calibration with mic. Soooo....needless to say that was most of the issue.

But irregardless after getting some time to play with it after work shows that this new setup with the same speakers as my old one makes everything really really harsh in the highs while revealing more detail. Which is very strange with discs I used to watch a lot such as Temple of Doom, Batman etc.

The music option is a good suggestion, it seems virtually identical to Cinema when untouched and the setup menu gives me an option to either move it up to three levels forward center oriented or rear oriented. Doing this does feel artificial though and each track is of course different too.


What're you using from Yamaha? My old receiver was the Sony STR-DE675 which is still somewhat working but the rears finally cut out. I use a lovely old stereo Yamaha RX-395 for my turntable since the Onkyo and any other AV receiver is terrible for music, and the onboard phono stage is very good.


I guess I really need an SPL meter now...why in the world are they still $50?

[captainsolo]

It sounds better but still weird. Anybody have suggestions?

[jerryshadoe]

Sorry, I thought I responded to this thread...

I am using the YAMAHA HTR-5650.

As far as suggestions... hmmm... maybe someone else would like to chime in

[captainsolo]

Well I haven't found a good unit locally yet, but I found the problem. The onkyo whether in DPL2 or Neo 6 has bleed from the center feed into the rears. I also found my old Sony had been malfunctioning so that the rears cut off a bit from time to time.

It doesn't happen all the time but its just enough to drive me nuts. The swirling noise test on Video Essentials shows the problem immediately. When it comes to the center channel you hear a slight wooshing in the rears. Grrrr.

And weirdly DPL2 is supposed to be better and use the same standards as the theatrical system in its matrixing. Neo 6 is an older system that is technically inferior but gives greater emphasis to the low end.

[jerryshadoe]

That sux about the center to rears bleed that you have going on. That would drive me nuts too

Yeah, I have noticed better results with Neo 6 versus DPL2, but I don't really question this because I'm just happy to have the option and use it frequently on my system. I also like the "6ch Stereo" option, which is nice when watching any film (and older music from 50s & 60s) that has a mono track.

EDIT: I have noticed that my unit does do a better job (especially with Neo 6, but even DPL2 sounds better) when using the digital input versus the analog. Those that know their stuff, will say "of course it does," but I wanted to just remind you of this. Have you tried to see how unit does using one versus the other?