(referring to Arrow and Shout! BD releases)
Do you guys know if any of the two scans was made from the IP?

(2019-01-16, 04:46 AM)TomArrow Wrote: Do you guys know if any of the two scans was made from the IP?

The Shout was a 2K scan of an IP, the Arrow was a 4K of the OCN.

Thanks PDB. Do you have any experience on whether IP scans keep the balance between the scenes or whether they just regrade shot for shot? My thought process is ... if you have an IP scan that still maintains the original grading *relatively*, in the sense that the grading differences between the scenes remain intact, only the general grading changed, you could regrade it to look like the actual film print with a blanket LUT in theory.

If I follow than I would say yes, if the IP is consistent over the scan and not changed shot to shot, you should be able to change the video with one blanket LUT. The IP should be the best record of the color timing of a film.

But I doubt the Shout was a simple scan and go, they would probably have to do shot by shot adjustments. Just given the different mediums involved, film and video. At a minimum they would have to adjust the black levels shot by shot. That's assuming they didn't do color adjustments, which I think they would have to do. Look at this:

Universal/Arrow/Shout/spoRv's Fundamental1/spoRv's F2/PDB Regrade/Croweyes1121 Regrade


(I added spoRv's, mine and Croweyes projects for the hell of it. spoRv's used the Shout, the others Arrow)

The Shout and Arrow/Universal are radically different. We know Arrow would have to shot by shot grade their scan since it was a neg scan but did Shout? The DOP approved the Shout but that's a debate in of itself.

I don't know, I'm not automatically on Arrow's side anymore than I'm on Shout's side. Even though Arrow puts together much better scans and encodes, their colors aren't any more accurate than anyone else.

And I don't think they even did the scan. I bet Universal did, that's why Shout was able to get a copy.

We need a 35mm LPP print of The Thing . It's the easiest way to learn if the snow is white or blue, if the generator room is orange-ish or blue.

Or, at least, soneone that could take accurate shot of some frames...

Although this doesn't exactly help this situation, on the Blu-Ray thread for the Shout! release of the movie, someone posted a production still of that exact scene (Idk if PDB saw this and that's why he chose that frame for the comparisons).

demofob Wrote:On the production still it is visible that there is no violet color.

Although it doesn't prove much of anything about the grading since production stills are ungraded but I think it's still interesting to bring up in the very least.

(2019-01-16, 08:16 PM)LucasGodzilla Wrote: Although this doesn't exactly help this situation, on the Blu-Ray thread for the Shout! release of the movie, someone posted a production still of that exact scene (Idk if PDB saw this and that's why he chose that frame for the comparisons).

Nah, hadn't seen that pic before. I just built off the pics Colson posted:

https://fanrestore.com/thread-1348-post-...l#pid35232

(2019-01-16, 08:16 PM)LucasGodzilla Wrote: Although it doesn't prove much of anything about the grading since production stills are ungraded but I think it's still interesting to bring up in the very least.

Sadly, you are right but still, like you said, it's a cool pic

@LucasGodzilla

Is that a still from the actual film or just a photograph taken by some guy hired to take set photos? I would guess it's the latter, which would mean the film stock is probably different and also the "white balance" is. The cinematographer could have used film stock with a different white balance (I forget if that's even the right word for film, but you get the point), and also have used color filters to cool the colors, so as you say, it doesn't tell us much.

Typical slide film tends to be daylight based, while I believe a lot of motion picture stock is tungsten based. If your neutral white is meant to be tungsten, then it would look orange on a daylight based film.

Compare the highlights/edge lights on the clothes, they are rather orange, while on either grade they are way more neutral. Add to this the fact that the lighting here is different. You can clearly see that any strong frontal shadows are mostly missing in the production still and the general tone of color in the foreground (aside from the backlight) is relatively neutral.

From my experience as an (occasional) photographer, I can almost guarantee you that this means the photographer here used a (fill) flash. Very early flash bulbs were tungsten, but electronic flashes are pretty close to daylight and they have been around since the 50s (though I'm not 100% sure if the color balance has always been like that). This movie was done in the 80s though, and by that time electronic flashes would be the way we know them today, which means close to daylight.

You can also tell when you look at the arm of the guy on the left. The jacket is mostly neutral, but the light hitting the jacket from the side is orange. You don't see such inconsistency in the shot from the actual movie, the part that is neutral in the production still is simply black there. It's a dead giveaway really.

TLDR: The film was likely shot on tungsten film, but this production still is likely taken on a daylight slide (resulting in the strongly orange edge light) with an electronic fill flash, so the color balance is completely off and useless to judge the grading.

Thought to move the previous posts in this new thread, first to not derail the original one, and second because I think it's an interesting topic that deserves a thread of its own.

I vaguely remember my version(s) was too magenta in that shot... now, I tweaked a bit the regrade, and it's closer to Arrow now (and also closer to laserdisc).

About various gradings: can't say which is the "right" one (read: closer to theatrical prints), but I noted lately with Waterworld (also by Arrow) that, apart better details due to 4K negative scan, even if colors are better than previous HD attempts (BD/HD-DVD and WEB), and often closer to laserdisc, yet it has clearly some problems, probably (I suppose) due to the fact that is difficult (impossible?) to get a certain grading - one obtained photochemically, the so-called color timing - using modern digital softwares... I found some shots that are plainly wrong (if someone is interested, I'll post them eventually in the Waterworld thread).

What I have noted is that laserdisc versions of both The Thing and Waterworld (and probably many others), albeit not free from problems, are more "linear" - in the sense that, shot after shot, colors remain more or less stable; on laserdisc, in the same scene, snow remains white-ish, while on Shout or Arrow in a shot it is whiteish, then blueish, then whiteish again, then pinkish etc.

So, apart the fact I like to see white(ish) snow, I like also shots to be linear, instead of jumping wildly (color rated) from shot to shot in the same scene.

My 2c.

70mm print (slightly faded)

Not my pics but hope it helps