Blade Runner (1982): color-timing; different versions; audio mixes

[PDB]

Probably but a lot of it is unnecessary work

[Jetrell Fo]

So how does the HD-DVD set fit in to all of this picture-wise? I do own it and the Blu box but have never really considered comparing them.

[Chewtobacca]

It's the same as the original BD set. In fact, the BDs suffer a bit because Warner used the same assets for both. It's a shame that when the BDs were re-released, there was no new encoding for the FC, but at least the branching BD received an AVC encoding, and the workprint, DTS-HD MA.

PDB, by unnecessary, I mean that the goal of your project is to put the missing elements back into the DC, and I'm fairly sure that the line was meant to be in the DC – after all, it ended up in the FC.

[PDB]

PDB, by unnecessary, I mean that the goal of your project is to put the missing elements back into the DC, and I'm fairly sure that the line was meant to be in the DC – after all, it ended up in the FC.

I guess so, Chew. I'll probably leave it as is since the LD PCM won't have it. So there is enough there for a BR fan to play with. It does make me wonder if you could say the same thing about the "I want more life, f**ker" vs "I want more life, father" lines.

[Chewtobacca]

That's a good point.  If we go too far down this road, we'll end up watching the FC!  

The fact that father was in the workprint complicates matters, but my suspicion is that Scott changed his mind on f***er/father at the time of the FC and that father was originally meant only for TV.  If father had been intended all along, it is hard to see how f***er could have come about, but the other way round is easily explicable.  In other words, the problematic reading is likely to have been the original.

[PDB]

That's a good point.  If we go too far down this road, we'll end up watching the FC!  

The fact that father was in the workprint complicates matters, but my suspicion is that Scott changed his mind on f***er/father at the time of the FC and that father was originally meant only for TV.  If father had been intended all along, it is hard to see how f***er could have come about, but the other way round is easily explicable.  In other words, the problematic reading is likely to have been the original.

Too true

The thing I always heard was that Hauer was instructed to semi-mumble the word so they could ADR it in either way and the Scott went back and forth on the issue. Can't remember where I heard that. Maybe Sammon's book on the movie. I could be wrong.

I'm always, of two minds on the different readings.

Thematically, I like the father line better. It fits with what's going on in that scene and what the movie has to say. The f**cker line make Batty angry a little too early. I prefer him to make the snap judgement to kill Tyrell when he realizes he is going to die. The other way makes it sound like he has already made up his mind.

Having said that, the reading (ADR) on father is very weak especially compared to the the punch of f**cker. And the shot is clearly composed (with the focus change) to make sure that word get emphasised and father just doesn't do it justice.

Sorry side note: In writing this, I flashed on the jerks who point out the if Indy did nothing in Raiders the outcome is the same. If Decker did nothing, the outcome would still be all the Replicants and Tyrell dying. Pretty much the same. Only difference is Rachel...maybe. I know that's not the point of the movie, just got me thinking.

[Jetrell Fo]

It's the same as the original BD set. In fact, the BDs suffer a bit because Warner used the same assets for both. It's a shame that when the BDs were re-released, there was no new encoding for the FC, but at least the branching BD received an AVC encoding, and the workprint, DTS-HD MA.

PDB, by unnecessary, I mean that the goal of your project is to put the missing elements back into the DC, and I'm fairly sure that the line was meant to be in the DC – after all, it ended up in the FC.

So their image quality is just as questionable? What about the audio options, any differences there?

[Chewtobacca]

^ I think the AVC encoding is probably a bit better. I've mentioned the main audio difference: the lossless audio on the workprint. Look in the thread on Blu-ray.com for discussion of how the audio on the branching disc varies between releases.

Sorry side note: In writing this, I flashed on the jerks who point out the if Indy did nothing in Raiders the outcome is the same. If Decker did nothing, the outcome would still be all the Replicants and Tyrell dying. Pretty much the same. Only difference is Rachel...maybe. I know that's not the point of the movie, just got me thinking.

That does indeed make one think, but I'm someone who sides with Ford against Scott and maintains that Deckard has to be a human; otherwise, there's no journey, which should be the point of the film. That's one reason I don't like the unicorn sequence and am going to remove it when I make my own personal version.

By the way, I prefer father because it's more poetic (and because I don't like swearing), but everything that you said above about the alternative makes sense.  The word father does have some impact, but it's in the content, not in the delivery, so I take your point about its not doing the moment justice.

[PDB]

Agreed the story only works if the human, Decker, learns to be human again and finds the humanity in the Replicants. Decker being a replicant defeats the entire point of the story. That's why I did the IC as my first project

But having said that, I do love the debate. Even Scott and Ford got into a fight over the issue at a dinner with Villeneuve:

http://ew.com/movies/2016/12/22/blade-ru...replicant/

The delivery of father is just not good. No fault of Hauer since God knows where the father line came from. I think there is/was a better version where the delivery of father brings home the shot. Father just means more to that scene, literally and figuratively.

F**cker also doesn't ring coming from Batty who up until then was shown to be an intelligent, calm and methodical person. Seems out of character. Only after the killing does he switch back to the "combat model" he was built to be.

[Chewtobacca]

^ Yeah, it seems too punk coming from Batty.

I like the debate, too, and think that the key is to maximize the ambiguity about Deckard's nature.  That feeds into the question of what it is to be human and seems to me to be a better response to Philip Dick's questioning of reality than Scott's "Deckard is a replicant".  (I always liked adigitalman's judgment that the unicorn sequence is the midi-chlorians of Blade Runner.)

What are you thinking of doing?

Replying here to avoid derailing your thread...

I'd like to make use of limited sections of the VO and add in a couple of the deleted scenes.