[Released] Terminator 2 CDS mix

[00shevin]

does anyone know how to rip both versions of T2 in makemkv without having to use double disk space? have this problem also with apoc. now

[deleted user]

I read there are some tools to create MKVs with seamless branching, but I never tried it.

[00shevin]

looks complicated. been finding working 2tb hard drives at valu village for 4 bucks anyhow

[little-endian]

Not long ago, I tried to follow up on the CDS mix discussion at originaltrilogy.com but somehow I missed this way more elaborate and technical one here so I am glad that Mr. Brown pointed me to the right direction via PM.

I already posted it there - DiscLord must have been very wrong at that time by exception when he claimed that the Live/Artisan US DVD was the only one to carry the CDS mix. After having gone through this thread, in fact there seem to be tons of releases which used it (more or less unaltered).

Not exactly becoming younger (and thus neither the ears) I wouldn't even be confident to stand a blind test between having content above 16 kHz or not anymore, not to say DTS full rate vs. its lossless counterpart. Actually there also has been a severe discussion in a German forum a long time ago whether or not the lossless formats TrueHD and DTS-HD MA are just marketing bullshit or not - you may guess what the consensus was after detailed analysis (if any of you guys speak German, it's definitely worth reading). Properly lossy encodes technically are just already so damn good that any mixing/mastering differences exceed their influence by magnitutes. Also one shouldn't forget what the format used to be in the cinema back in the days - optically stored AC3@320kBit/s. As it already has been stated here - it's almost only all in the mix. 

Speaking of that, zoidberg mentioned differences between the LFE and surround channels a long time ago so I wonder whether that's due to decoding or a different source. After all I thought the Live-DVD AC3 and Pioneer-DVD DTS were derived from the same source.

[zoidberg]

The only real difference (that I observed) between the AC-3/DTS LFE tracks was that the DTS rolled off slightly on the high frequencies, but that may well be down to the software I used (audacity). Even so it's a LFE track, it's the low frequencies that matter.
There is also the Live laserdisc AC-3 track which may or may not have more dynamic range than the DVD (as a general rule they usually do)

[little-endian]

Thanks for your reply, however if the frequency rolloff is the only difference you witnessed then I don't understand the sentence you had written in the other thread which was "The LCR channels were certainly hotter than the dolby but the LFE/Surrounds were lower.".

The US-AC3-LD I recently bought but it will take some time until I will be able to listen to that one for comparison.

Also interesting that the lossy DTS from the DVD now seems to be the preferred choice here and not the lossless DTS-HD MA. Technically it doesn't make any sense that a lossy version is effectively better as at some point there must have been the PCM master counterpart with the same nominal characteristics so I wonder what happened to that one after they had their DVD released back then.

[bendermac]

Also interesting that the lossy DTS from the DVD now seems to be the preferred choice here and not the lossless DTS-HD MA. Technically it doesn't make any sense that a lossy version is effectively better as at some point there must have been the PCM master counterpart with the same nominal characteristics so I wonder what happened to that one after they had their DVD released back then.

Of course a lossless audio file would be better then a lossy one. The preference for the CDS has nothing to do with lossless vs lossy. It's the actual content. The CDS mix, afaik only available in lossy format, is far superior then all the remixes for this movie. Would I or the others here prefer a true lossless version of the original theatrical mix, coming directly from the master tapes? ABSOLUTELY!!!
But since we don't have that available, we use the next best thing. Lossy or not, the DTS CDS mix sounds fantastic and it will be my go to mix from here on now

[Beber]

Actually, the lossless has been found on both French HDDVD and Blu-ray, but share the same flaws after being analyzed by our audio guys here, who chose to go with the full standard DTS which is in better condition.

[zoidberg]

Thanks for your reply, however if the frequency rolloff is the only difference you witnessed then I don't understand the sentence you had written in the other thread which was "The LCR channels were certainly hotter than the dolby but the LFE/Surrounds were lower.".

The US-AC3-LD I recently bought but it will take some time until I will be able to listen to that one for comparison.

Also interesting that the lossy DTS from the DVD now seems to be the preferred choice here and not the lossless DTS-HD MA. Technically it doesn't make any sense that a lossy version is effectively better as at some point there must have been the PCM master counterpart with the same nominal characteristics so I wonder what happened to that one after they had their DVD released back then.

Apologies, I got my wires crossed earlier. It's the HD-DVD DTS-MA that had the filtered LFE channel. There was also what looked like noise reduction performed. In general the full bitrate DTS DVD was in better shape.

Wow you really did your research! I didn't remember writing the stuff about the lower level surrounds until you reminded me. Yeah when monitoring through audacity the surrounds on the DTS DVD playback slightly lower than the AC-3. The content (ie creative choices and mixing decisions) is identical however. I don't know if this is down to dialnorm or possibly some slight range compression on the AC-3 DVD. I never did get round to doing an ABX (I watched the laserdisc instead   )

[bendermac]

Actually, the lossless has been found on both French HDDVD and Blu-ray, but share the same flaws after being analyzed by our audio guys here, who chose to go with the full standard DTS which is in better condition.

You mean the filtered LFE?

Did anyone compare the Japanese Theatrical Cut Blu-ray or the D-Theater, if they may contain the CDS mix?