iTunes new Dark Knight/DK Rises master

[deleted user]

Got some screens of the HDR off a tracker as lossless PNGs and did a regrade with DrDre's tool with that:

https://diff.pics/8FJecyCC8DoR/1

The result is uniform enough for me to confirm that this is indeed the same master. It's not perfect though, there are some slight issues, in particular with the reds; I suspect it has to do with DrDre's tool not being able to catch this particular change because the parts of the image where it happens are too small. Gonna try doing some tinkering to improve it, maybe even with manual LUT corrections.

[Chewtobacca]

"Audio Home Cinéma multicanal : Bitstream et downmix stéréo (DTS, DTS-HD MA, DTS-HD HRA, DTS:X, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos). Attention! Les formats sonores HD multicanal ne sont pas transmis en SPDIF (nécessitent obligatoirement du HDMI) et sont downmixé en stéréo en raison des limitations de débit du SPDIF."

So hopefully I get this right, SPDIF output is downmixed, but optical or HDMI do output multi-channel?

That part in the specs is confusing, I don't know anybody who output multi channel via SPDIF

Your discussion with Beber probably needs its own thread, but the specs don't seem confusing to me.  You can't bitstream HD audio over SPDIF, because the cable can't carry the whole of the signal.  You can bitstream multi-channel AC-3 and DTS, which is why the HD audio formats have lossy "cores" that can be transmitted.  Many people with older receivers do this.  When it comes to multi-channel PCM, you have to use HDMI because SPDIF can carry only 2.0 PCM (hence the downmixing).

[44rh1n]

I now have a Batman Begins 720p iTunes version. It does definitely have different colors, and in a very positive way. For example, that very ugly extreme green/teal/cyan of the mountain scenes is now relatively neutral in the highlights and the brightness altogether pushed up and contrast improved (in those scenes). Skin colors are mostly nice now and sometimes really beautiful. Altogether it feels much more balanced and harmonic and actually shows some colors instead of some blanket color tint. Really happy about it.

I just downloaded the new iTunes version; and sadly, I have to completely disagree with you on this one. The colors are way too magenta and extremely oversaturated to an unnatural degree. To me, this new iTunes version looks really, really awful. The darker, more muted color grading of the original Blu-ray is much more appropriate for the film's dark feel. It's really awkward seeing a film like this, which is supposed to feel dark and muted, all of a sudden look really saturated and poppy. I can't stand it at all! I really hope the new 4K HDR Blu-ray doesn't look like this!

[44rh1n]

Some frames from the The Dark Knight UHD

https://mega.nz/#F!4zpmFKKC!NFboFpsGyWLCUmoYvJ541Q

Do you have frames from the Batman Begins UHD Blu-ray?

[captainsolo]

I'm really only interested in Begins but it looks like they still haven't quite got it right on these. I saw BB via 35mm, TDK as a DCP, and TDKR via 15 perf IMAX. Still to date I think the original BD of TDKR is the only one to do its film justice.

[Stamper]

Are you sure it's not because you are used to Rec709 color space, and BT2020 looks unnatural because it's new?
I haven't seen the itunes masters, just asking.

[spoRv]

I went ahead and regraded your UHD shot to the iTunes master using DrDre's ColorMatch. Here's a comparison between UHD, iTunes and UHD regraded to iTunes: https://diff.pics/7cEUpMBglGhv/1

Seems to have worked okay, only place I see some mild mismatch is the face (may be due to compression artifacts in iTunes) and in the lights of the "GNS" boot. I imagine this will become better with more samples to use.

Hint: rescale iTunes to cover perfectly the UHD; overlay it to UHD regraded; use the iTunes chroma - done!

[deleted user]

@44rh1n

It's definitely different and more ... "mellow" than the old one, but I like it. It still definitely has dark scenes in it. Maybe the contrast could be changed a little to have true blacks (the blacks currently seem to be not quite as black as is thinkably possible).

@spoRv
Tried it in Photoshop, didn't seem to do much. It did improve things in a few spots maybe, but it also reduces chroma resolution, which I don't like. Also, it won't work for the IMAX shots, as they are cropped in iTunes (and not even centeredly).

I think that the key is that they used tone mapping, which can not be reproduced with a 3D LUT. So what I'm currently thinking is that the best approach to get as close as possible will be to find tonemap settings (for example in ffmpeg) that get as close to iTunes as possible, THEN regrade the tone-mapped result with a 3D LUT. Luckily the final render with all of this can be done in one step in ffmpeg with video filters, AND it can be done in 16 bit color space, so it should not introduce any unnecessary banding. Trouble will really just be to find settings that accurately reproduce the tonemapping used for the iTunes master.

That said, this is nitpicking. I don't find my results to be horrible and while I haven't checked yet (haven't got my new hard drive yet) I'm sure they are watchable and fairly representative. But I AM a nitpicker and if I can find a way to do better, I'm gonna go for it. I definitely like the darker tonemapped colors, even though the difference is subtle.


Edit: Interestingly, one of the IMAX shots actually shows more on the bottom in the iTunes master, compared to the UHD. Found this rather curious! Makes you wonder if they do have a 4K 4:3 master hidden away somewhere...

[CSchmidlapp]

Edit: Interestingly, one of the IMAX shots actually shows more on the bottom in the iTunes master, compared to the UHD. Found this rather curious! Makes you wonder if they do have a 4K 4:3 master hidden away somewhere...

There is. The IMAX Interpositive and Internegative.
There will also be Digital variation which is where all these masters have come from.

There is some pretty good information in my previous posts / links.
Without trying to sound obnoxious, I feel like this thread is now more akin to a conversation on Bluray.com.

[deleted user]

Edit: Interestingly, one of the IMAX shots actually shows more on the bottom in the iTunes master, compared to the UHD. Found this rather curious! Makes you wonder if they do have a 4K 4:3 master hidden away somewhere...

There is. The IMAX Interpositive and Internegative.
There will also be Digital variation which is where all these masters have come from.

There is some pretty good information in my previous posts / links.
Without trying to sound obnoxious, I feel like this thread is now more akin to a conversation on Bluray.com.

Yeah I meant the digital version.

What do you mean by "akin to a conversation on Bluray.com"?