iTunes new Dark Knight/DK Rises master

[CSchmidlapp]

Edit: Interestingly, one of the IMAX shots actually shows more on the bottom in the iTunes master, compared to the UHD. Found this rather curious! Makes you wonder if they do have a 4K 4:3 master hidden away somewhere...

There is. The IMAX Interpositive and Internegative.
There will also be Digital variation which is where all these masters have come from.

There is some pretty good information in my previous posts / links.
Without trying to sound obnoxious, I feel like this thread is now more akin to a conversation on Bluray.com.

Yeah I meant the digital version.

What do you mean by "akin to a conversation on Bluray.com"?

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=293509

[deleted user]

I am not sure I follow. This thread was meant to find and discuss the new masters and now that I have them, I'm posting updates on my attempts to regrade the UHD to them. Something wrong with that?

[CSchmidlapp]

What are you regrading the UHD to?

EDIT: Ive re-read the thread somewhat and it sounds like your trying to regrade the UHD to the iTunes rip.
The iTunes rip looks like it's been badly converted to 8bit Rec709 4:2:0 from the same digital master as the UHD.

Like on the bluray.com thread, there is an assumption that the UHD is at fault, because of bad HDR to SDR, 10bit to 8bit, REC2020 to REC709, 4K to 1080p conversions that is done on the fly by a number of different methods in different playback situations.
It's like Bluray.com in that this has been put forth by a number of people in the thread, and at times, completely ignored.

I did say I didn't want to sound obnoxious, even though its hard not to when we are geeking out like this.
We're all friends on Fanres really and i have learn't alot from the members here.

I'm personaly more interested in the origin's of the new 4K master and does the conversion to UHD disc repressent it correctly.
Is it still from the IMAX interpositive's / Internegatives? That would have had the DMR process all over the 35mm footage!
Did they go back to the original 35mm assets for these parts?
Plus what is the correct colour timings considering the history of the film?
Maybe that is alittle off topic?

I'm still in 8bit 1080p land myself, so a optimal conversion from the UHD would be great
I'm completely writing off the iTunes versions as a option after seeing the screens.

[CSchmidlapp]

Here is a 'The Dark Knight' UHD HDR rip converted to 8bit SDR on the fly with MAD-VR through MPC-BE.

[CSchmidlapp]

[spoRv]

So, if this image

is HDR, may you post the SDR version? Curious to see it!

[CSchmidlapp]

Some frames from the The Dark Knight UHD

https://mega.nz/#F!4zpmFKKC!NFboFpsGyWLCUmoYvJ541Q

Do you have frames from the Batman Begins UHD Blu-ray?

Frames from a UHD Rip of 'Begins'. Again converted like the 'Dark Knight' one's above

[CSchmidlapp]

So, if this image

is HDR, may you post the SDR version? Curious to see it!

[deleted user]

Ah, I see. Personally, the idea of creating 1080p SDR encodes from HDR footage entered my mind when I first heard of it. If for nothing else, it will give a sharper less DNRed image than the current BD.

I've read that the 4K has been scanned at 4K from the interpositive. Source (no idea how reliable): http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Dar...849/page/6

If that is true, the colour timing should be fairly accurate.

The iTunes rip looks like it's been badly converted to 8bit Rec709 4:2:0 from the same digital master as the UHD.

I find it looks pretty similar to screens I've seen from madVR tbh, like the ones you just posted. It's not 100% identical, but it's definitely in the same ballpark. It has the same kind of mellow saturated facials etc. For example here's a similar frame to the first one in your posted screens:
   

There's a difference, but not a dramatic one. Probably just some tweaking with the conversion/tone mapping parameters.

As for what's accurate, I've stated my opinion before - I don't think there can be an "accurate" SDR representation of HDR content. There is no standardized process of conversion and SDR cannot reproduce the dynamic range of HDR, so you're left with the option to choose something that you like.

As for why I want to regrade to iTunes: I believe (maybe wrongly) that this is the "official" SDR grading of the new master. My goal is not necessarily to recreate the theatrical experience, as I lack the knowledge and patience and most likely the resources for that. I simply want to make available a good solid 1080p copy of the remaster that is as close to the "santioned" SDR colors as possible. In other words, I want to make available what the publisher failed to, when he didn't update the normal Blu Rays in the 4K trilogy. Not much more and not much less.

I do agree that the tone mapping does create a rather special look, particularly when it comes to saturation. It's a bit in the direction of the "HDR" effect in photography. 

But, I personally like it.

[CSchmidlapp]

I like it also
Ive not had a chance to view the actual UHD as intended on a good quality 4K HDR set. Im excited!

You are probably correct on the iTunes being the SDR master.
Im unsure of the process for iTunes delivery. Does the studio supply the file?
With the alt framing in the IMAX sequence it may have been done by a 3rd party with access to the same 4K master used to create the UHD? That would probably be in the 12bit 4:4:4 colour space land (and in the IMAX ratio in this instance!) like most Digital Masters of this caliber!
The fact that the MADVR does a better looking job says alot, its a free filter!
A professional conversion should look fantastic and has in the past