[Help] Empire Strikes Back original audio track?

[deleted user]

I was wanting to rewatch some of the OT movies. Started with ROTJ and enjoyed it, but now I went on to ESB and saw that the Grindhouse version (my preferred way to watch this) has the 2.0 Dolby Stereo from the 35mm. 

Now, naturally, I was inspired to create a 5.1 track out of that using my Dolby SDU4. BUT since this was likely recorded straight from the film, there was likely no account for any Dolby Noise Reduction that was very likely used on the print, so any attempt to reverse the 4-channel fold-down before reversing the Dolby Noise Reduction would be kind of pointless.

So I was wondering if there was any "authentic" and lossless track out there.

I was thinking Laserdisc maybe.

Checked out the Despecialized Edition and that one has a "1993 Laserdisc mix", but only included as AC-3 (meh), not lossless.

Also, what does "1993 mix" imply? Was it changed? Not for the special edition right? Those came out in 1997, afaik.

It also includes a 5.1 and 2.0 track, both titled "1980 mix". Now this utterly confuses me. What does that mean? To my knowledge, in 1980 there was no 5.1 surround for movies. So what exactly are those two tracks? Is it the original 1980 2.0 track and the 5.1 one is basically the same thing I would do (converting to 5.1 with a Surround decoder) or is this some kind of later 5.1 revision?!

I realized that the ROTJ Grindhouse version also has a 5.1 mix called (1983 mix). That should have made me skeptical already I guess, but somehow in my mind I thought, okay, maybe in 1983 they already had surround? But even that isn't the case, I think.

So what are those mysterious 5.1/2.0 tracks on the Despecialized Editions and what's the source and what is the best way to get something that very much resembles the original theatrical experience?

[SilverWook]

The Star Wars films were remixed for the first THX Laserdisc releases in 1993.

[zoidberg]

Check out the forums on OT, the info you seek is there.

[Stamper]

I would stay clear of the Despecialised as they look like video and also many fixes are visible.
The GOUT 3.0 version are nicely film looking they are basically like DVD quality of laserdisc captures of prints, and have hundreds of mixes so you can pick up the one you want.

[deleted user]

Well, I only want the Despecialized for the audio, not for the video. I wanna sync it to the Grindhouse. Or maybe I shall invest some time syncing the Grindhouse to the GOUT instead, then those tracks could be more easily used...

And thanks, I checked the OT forums, but the information was a little scattered. As I understand currently, the 5.1 is the 70mm reconstruction by Hairy Hen and the 2.0 is a mixdown of that.

The 1993 laserdisc mix seems(?) to be kind of a remaster of the original mix, but has some missing speeder crash sound (?).

I mean, I would totally be happy with a solid PCM 2.0 Dolby Stereo mix as it was originally used on the 35mm prints (but without the Dolby Noise Reduction applied). But I am not sure such a thing even exists.

[Stamper]

Weirdly I can't find the GOUT 3.0 on the internal organ anymore. What happened? Every film had like 20 different mixes.

Here are the ones I kept.

[ChainsawAsh]

The 2.0 is not a mixdown, it's a DTS-HD MA encode of the stereo PCM track from the laserdisc, which is the original 1980 35mm stereo mix. There may be bits here and there patched with the 1993 laserdisc PCM where the laserdisc version of the original mix had dropouts or distortions, but I'm not certain about that.

Hairy_Hen's 5.1 is an upmix from the 1993 stereo PCM remix from the Definitive Collection/"Faces" THX laserdisc.

So basically, the Despecialized MKVs contain:

1. DTS-HD MA 5.1 - Hairy_Hen upmix of the 1993 laserdisc remixes of all 3 films (except SW77, which is essentially that but edited to match in-theater recordings of the 1977 70mm six-track mix, so it's a "recreation" of the original 1977 surround as best as can be done at the moment)
2. DTS-HD MA 2.0 - Lossless encodes of the original 1977/1980/1983 35mm stereo tracks, captured from laserdisc PCM tracks
3. DTS-HD MA 1.0 (SW77 and ESB only) - unique mono mixes - SW77 is the original 1977 35mm mono mix, taken from a few sources including an early-1980s VHS recording from TV, patched as necessary with other sources; ESB is a mono mix used on 16mm prints, primarily taken from Puggo's 16mm transfer.
4. Dolby Digital 2.0 (SW77 Only) - 1985 stereo home video remix, encoded from laserdisc PCM capture (mostly the same as the 1977 stereo, but wider dynamic range and an extra Threepio line about the Death Star tractor beam)
5. Dolby Digital 2.0 - 1993 stereo home video remixes, encoded from laserdisc PCM captures; this is the same mix included on the 2006 bonus DVD ("GOUT") releases, but taken from the LD and not the 192Kbps DVD audio

All the original 1977/80/83 stereo/mono mixes and Hairy_Hen's 5.1 upmixes are included in lossless DTS-HD MA in the large MKV versions of Despecialized.

Hairy_Hen is also releasing a new 5.1 SW77 in the near future, and we also have learned that the dropouts he patched in the 1977 stereo mix are actually there on the print optical audio (it was previously assumed they were errors made while preparing the track for home video release), so it's likely that a certain 35mm project that's near to completion will include both his new 5.1 70mm reconstruction/upmix, along with a new lossless release of the 1977 35mm stereo that doesn't patch the dropouts.

Hope that was helpful.

[deleted user]

@ChainsawAsh Great info, thanks! That's exactly what I wanted to know.