Spartacus Criterion LD Movie Audio & Audio Commentary

[bendermac]

The new 4K Mastered BD is out and it looks awesome. But Universal couldn't leave the audio alone
and added a 7.1 mix to it. So I suggest that we add the audio from the Criterion LD and also include
the audio commentary from it.

Anyone may have said LaserDisc and can capture the audio tracks?

If we have no luck getting the audio from the CC-LD, I can provide the audio from the CC-DVD.

[PDB]

Sounds like a great project. I don't have the tracks but hopefully someone around here can help.

In addition, any thoughts about regrading the 4K to the CC DVD/LD's color timing? Or is that not worth it?

[Feallan]

I thought the 4K is supposed to have correct color timing.

[PDB]

Who knows. Reading on the hometheaterforum, Harris went back to the negative for the first time and scanned it. They then used several ib tech prints to come up with the correct colors. That's good since even ib techs aren't infallible. Sometimes you could have one that was a rush job and not done to good standards.

That's all great but supposedly when criterion color timed their ld and dvd they used several ib techs also and the results are considerably more brownish in color

So I'm not sure which is right. I lean towards Harris given his talent but he has been wrong before. Still might be nice to have both viewing options.

[Chewtobacca]

It would be nice to have the LD audio, but I'm not interested in any color-correction.  The difference between the Criterion LD/DVD colors and those on the Universal BD is small overall (though more apparent in certain shots).  I think it likely that Harris was able to reproduce the original colors more accurately this time and trust his judgment in respect of this film, given his extensive experience with it and obvious interest in it. The BD looks so gorgeous that there's no way I would accept a recompression of the video for so little obvious gain.  And Spartacus is my favorite film, and having it ‘done right’ matters a great deal to me.

[captainsolo]

Colorwise the old Uni transfer on VHS, LD and DVD were straight from a scan of the remastered IP and the Criterion was done in reference to several IB tech sources with great time and care. I believe they may have revisited it slightly for the DVD version as well. But they were still limited to the domains of the era and what the new 4K version allows for is a greater ability to reproduce the stock range and intention. So I absolutely give them that but I have worried about the audio side of things.

I don't get why they feel it is so necessary to do away with the old school roadshow style of mixing since no one has five channels across the front. If anything it shouldn't be that difficult to reproduce this across the LCR field and have the simplistic mono split in the rears. Uni seems to love 7.1 as they remixed JAWS that way too. The 1991 restoration mixed into Dolby Stereo only from what I can tell, and the 5.1 on the Criterion DVD was I believe an upmix from that track.

So you now have 2.0 matrix, 5.1 lossy and now 7.1. And of course the various edited prints from various issues through the years that may have had stereo only or mono. The LD PCM would be great and then perhaps the DVD 5.1 for completion purposes.

I still haven't been able to get a copy in-store as Uni seems to have given up on distributing this title. No store within 100 miles has one.

[bendermac]

bump

the ld is on sale at ebay.com - the seller also has other goodies, e.g. james bond and taxi driver (criterion).
order over $30 get free shipping in the usa.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Spartacus-Criteri...SwTZ1XmChW

make sure to check his other items.

[captainsolo]

Forgot to post here, but the 7.1 new mix is the best the film has had since it faithfully replicates the full width of the sound panning in ways that no previous mix had ever done. I mentioned this on the HTF thread and how each successive home mix seemed to improve upon the previous one but then that the BD was like a light year ahead. Mr. Harris revealed that during the 1991 restoration they prepared two mixes, one six track for the theatrical re-issue and one essentially boxed in for home systems and video formats of the day. Thus I'm pretty sure ALL of the old releases use the latter track as the PCM of the LD sounds virtually identical to the Criterion 2.0 and 5.1 with the 5.1 having a slight edge in clarity as they likely spruced it up in 2001 as they did the video with a new master and timing to IB references.
The 7.1 seems to be the six track mix with phantom center left and center right and thus perfectly recreates the original five screen channel spread. However I did notice the tiniest noise in the high end every once in a while but this may be because I have full range towers for my mains now.

I compared the Universal LD, Criterion DVD 2.0 and 5.1 and the new BD. I don't have the botched first BD but I presume its the same as the Criterion audio.

[Chewtobacca]

Many thanks for the info, captain! I'm leaving the remastered BD as is. I might be able to get hold of the 5.1 from the old BD if you really want a listen, but you're almost certainly right in thinking that its 5.1 track is identical to that on the Criterion DVD, which I'm keeping -- if only because of the cover art.

[captainsolo]

The cover art is phenomenal and makes me want to get the CC LD. Then of course you have to hang onto it for the extras.

The new BD is one of the finest discs available, aside from the missing extras, should make a staggering 4K release. The only things it lacks are a slightly more detailed look at the restoration, and wishful thinking perhaps including the mono mix for completion's sake. (which should exist and as far as I know has never seen the light of day)