Frankenstein (1931) Audio Preservation

[jerryshadoe]

You think that's something??

You ain't seen nothing yet...

[crissrudd4554]

I have some questions about some of the things you noted but maybe I'll wait til the next log haha

[jerryshadoe]

Happy to answer questions, so shoot

[crissrudd4554]

'Honorable mention: 18min 34sec - 18min 36sec, on the LD we hear, Female: "Henry?" Male: "Step aside!" which is MISSING on the BD - side note: this is the first part that is retimed during scene this much and that the background didn't match and the dialog didn't either. syncing this was a bitch regardless of whether I wanted to keep the LD audio, but it have a slight "echo" (it's not really and I only notice it because I know it's there) or custom match the BD audio which I couldn't get to match no matter how hard I tried'

Could you elaborate on this a little?? The post is worded a little funny. It sounds like youre saying its a separate piece that Universal didnt bother to seamlessly cut into the mix unless Im reading your post wrong. If thats the case than I believe it. This was afterall one of the bits I mentioned being missing from the BD. Also I think the guy says 'Frankenstein' not 'step aside' but thats beside the point. Funny thing about this bit. All the VHS editions have it, at least the ones Ive seen, yet the 1980 VHS is missing the other bits I pointed out and also the 'restored' footage is cut out. Oddly this bit is in a slightly lower pitch on the 1999 VHS yet its correct on the 1999 DVD. Someone on Classic Horror Film Board thought that these were cut and pasted from earlier in the scene but I think you and me know better. At some point just for the hell of it I'll make a slight list of changes done on the video releases.

[jerryshadoe]

Some notes were written when I was nearly delirious, LOL

But yes, you are reading that right... There was a slight mis-timing between the LD and BD audio there, some of the background/sfx/music matched, some didn't and the LD had the "extra" bit of dialog, while the BD had some "extra" bits of sfx/music in that place. So I'm pretty sure that's one of the bits you were referring to.

Prepare yourself for the fact that your "list of changes" might end up being incomplete, as I'll elaborate more on soon

[crissrudd4554]

Sounds fun. Going back to that bit again I'm curious on your take of something. Go back a couple seconds to the shot of them at the door that precedes the shot of Henry and Fritz coming down the stairs. As it cuts to the latter we hear a roll of thunder. However it sounds like there's an extra roll of thunder on the LD/VHS. Comparing this to the BD, do you think some of this effect was lost on the BD mix or it's a completely different sound all together????!!

[jerryshadoe]

I'll check that out and let you know...

[Feallan]

Damn, that's a lot of fixes. You're the magic man, Jerry.

[jerryshadoe]

Thanx man

Ok, so I wanted to be absolutely, positively sure before I mentioned anything here...

I mentioned in an earlier post that I'll be able to use the Spanish dub DTS track from the BD to fix stuff and that I have found something in that track and the overly processed Italian dub DTS track from the BD. With what I found, I was curious whether previous releases on DVD of these dubs were better quality because they don't contain the noise reduction applied on the BD. BLAM! For the most part, for the Spanish track is better quality on the BD (although there are slight differences between the two - similar to the English VHS/LD versus BD) BUT the Italian audio track is massively superior on the DVD release because it's prior to the noise reduction, which means that what I discovered is now doable...

So, what did I discover??

There is a TON of sfx/background ambiance MISSING on the English track (that SHOULD BE there, as I have verified both visually and the quality of the audio matches the rest perfectly - in the couple of instances where it doesn't match perfectly during actual dialog, I can tell that it didn't belong there originally and won't use those parts; there are obvious quality differences during some of the dialog parts, but not all) AND there a NUMEROUS music cues that are also MISSING on the English track that obviously belong there. At first I was slightly skeptical until I saw the part where they reinserted the censored part where the monster throws the little girl into the lake... because that part is in English AND also contains the music... it's very trippy...

What I am having to do right now is remove any Spanish/Italian dialog when it's occurring during the music which it looks like I'll be able to do because the dialog is spoken at slightly different times and I can use one to fill in the other. That's the reason I'm glad that I have the "raw" unfiltered Spanish dub from the BD and the "raw" unfiltered Italian dub from the DVD...

You guys will absolutely flip when this is completed. I have a funny feeling that the film hasn't been seen in English containing all of the audio since it's theatrical release. There are parts where it's obvious that sfx are missing (I mean come on... no one has ever wonder why there is SOOOOOOOO much silence in the film...) They match in quality and type of sfx used throughout the rest of the film and they match to what's ON-SCREEN!!!

In the beginning of the film, right after the burial, there are actually crickets chirping, some birds, and an owl hooting in the background.

There is a LONG list of things I have discovered, for a total of about 10 minutes worth of audio missing on the English track. I just spent the last four hours writing down (yes, old-school, writing on paper; LOL) EVERY single shot/angle/scene/camera change/crossfade/fade-to/from-black with their exact corresponding time codes. Next, I will start working on using the CD audio, Spanish Dub DTS BD audio, and the Italian DVD audio to reconstruct the entire audio track back to it's original glory. This is going to take me a little bit of time to do for a few reasons:

a) like I mentioned, I have to remove the dialog by "patching" the tracks with each other

b) due to the sources being from different masters, they have to be aligned on a shot-by-shot basis (reason for me writing down ALL of those shot-change timecodes)

c) there will be a couple of very minor parts where I will have to "play some games" to remove the foreign dub dialog (fortunately, it looks like in all cases but one, I can loop the sfx in the background pretty seamlessly - In fact, I have become so familiar with the audio mix [the English one] that I noticed certain sfx repeating throughout the film and this occurs in the dubs with the "extra"/missing sfx)

d) certain stuff I will have to throw on a timeline in Vegas Pro to make sure that it does actually align/sync visually because I have no cues to go off of in the English version

e) I will still need to go over ALL of the edits made to sync the LD in the first place and fix the ones that need it


This is going to take me a little bit because I wanna make sure that this is done correctly. What bothers me the most about this is the fact that I have been able to find NOTHING about this online, even in forums that center around films of this era. If I had heard "extra" music and/or sfx in only ONE of the foreign dubs, I would probably be able to dismiss it because it wouldn't be the first time that I have seen that. But because of the fact that there are two different dubs that use the same "extra" material (not only during dialog parts, because that could be explained off with the fact that they redid the audio during the dialog) including numerous music cues that are nearly identical (except for slightly different timing due to the fact that they come from DIFFERENT masters) I just can't "write this off" as "something they changed for a foreign dub."

I am absolutely blown away by the fact that the studios have not caught this, that no one else has caught this, and that no proper version of the entire sound track exists in English. There is obviously some audio stems missing. I will do everything I can to put this together in it's entirety and to make it as seamless as possible

For those of you that have the BD and are curious what the hell I'm talking about... Pop it in, switch it to the Spanish audio track and then start viewing the film at the 31st minute (WARNING: the foreign dubs are not synced (up to +/-250ms, depending where) worth a shit to the English track/video track and I will be fixing this for the reconstruction, but it will give you a rough idea of just ONE of the MANY things I have found)

[crissrudd4554]

Which DVD do you have??? None of the R1 DVDs I have have an alternate language track!! Also Jerry keep in mind that sometimes alterations can be made to alternate language tracks that aren't present on the English tracks. A few months ago Dracula was aired on Svengoolie with everyone assuming it would have the Philip Glass score. Nope instead it had a completely different track and also some new sound effects. For example a more modern wolf sound effect was used in place of the original. The score IMO was actually better than the Glass score. It was more moody and didn't blanket the whole film like the Glass score did. There was a big discussion about this on Classic Horror Film Board and I believe what it came down to was this was a score added to an alternate language track back in the late 90s that was now somehow added to the English track. Now trust me. I don't doubt anything you're taking on at this point with this project but I wanted to make light of that. You mentioned hearing crickets and owls and I'm like 'wait a minute'! Just a headsup is all Jerry and as usual we're excited with what you come up with and appreciate your commitment.