Frankenstein (1931) Audio Preservation

[jerryshadoe]

There are a few sfx that do NOT belong and I'm aware of that. They are present during the some of the dubbed dialog scenes and I am writing a list identifying all the changes. The stuff I've referenced in my last post, definitely belongs. As I mentioned, some of the sfx clearly belong (it's obvious when you view them synced properly to what's on-screen) and the music cues appear to be from the same source as the music that's included on the English track. These also sync up perfect to what's on-screen. I am fully aware of the fact that scores/sfx have been changed from time to time but when this occurs (based on my extensive experience syncing a multitude of foreign dubs over the years) but I have never seen the exact same "alternate" tracks being used in two different dubs. The couple of instances where I have seen it, I was able to verify that the audio there was actually not "alternate" but stuff that was supposed to be there and was missing from the English track. Hence, my assumption that this is the case here (along with everything else I have been verifying before I mention this in the thread.

The Spanish DVD track came from an R2 release from Spain and the Italian DVD track, naturally, came from an R2 release from Italy. Both are missing the little bit of dialog (about God) and both had to be speed and pitch corrected first, before I can use them.

When it comes to the "chirping" and whatnot sfx, I am absolutely sure that they belong. The audio quality of those parts matches in fidelity, tone, type of sfx of the era, and everything (plus, unlike the sfx that I can tell were "added" during some of the dialog, there are clicks, pops, scratches from the record they were playing on)

I will be comparing everything before I make ANY edits, to be 100% sure that I am going about this the right way.

What's interesting here is that, for the most part, the English BD track is the same as the LD track (just with a shitload of noise reduction and the uncensored line) and it appears to be from the same master (as evident by certain particular pops, clicks, scratches that are identical) BUT, the Italian and Spanish dubs are sourced from a different master for the DVDs and a completely different master for the BD (the scratches/etc. are NOT identical)

[IcePrick]

I think Jerry may on to something here. The music does indeed sound like it belongs there. But I think it's a bit speculative whether it's actually supposed to be there. It's possible that the music was discarded at the last minute, but showed up in some of the dubs because it remained on the stems. That sort of thing has happened before; for instance, the German dub of Star Wars has an extra music cue that was muted on the English track, and the English dub of The Killer has a bunch of extra music cues, presumably because it's based on an earlier sound mix. Personally, I would suggest putting out two separate tracks; one of the synced LD track with fixes, and another one that is a reconstruction with the extra music cues and SFX.

[crissrudd4554]

Could you point out again where this musical cue was??? Was it a piece of music recorded to accompany the scene or a piece of music that was playing in the background i.e. coming from the village?????

[Lil Brutto]

Personally, I would suggest putting out two separate tracks; one of the synced LD track with fixes, and another one that is a reconstruction with the extra music cues and SFX.

I also feel this is the best way forward.

[jerryshadoe]

That was exactly what I was planning on doing - two versions:

a) an LD PCM synced to BD with all fixes

b) an LD PCM synced to BD with the reconstruction

@ crisrudd - the music is to accompany the scene, not part of background coming from village

There is a good chance that the music was discarded at the last moment, although I find that hard to believe considering the fact that we are talking about a film from 1931. With the history of this film, the fact that the depression and then WWII happened shortly after, there is a very good chance that these were just lost by the studio and that's why they haven't been present. This is a common problem with films from that era, so the theory isn't that far fetched.

However, IcePrick is correct in saying that this is pure speculation on my part. There is NOTHING on the internet about this, although I'm still looking for any clues. The only clue that I have had so far is what I found in the audio...

I mentioned the scene where the monster throws the girl into the lake... this is my ONLY indication that the music might have belonged there initially after-all, because there is a shift in audio quality for the uncensored part (naturally) but the shift is in the music quality (as the uncensored part has dialog in ENGLISH) To make things more clear, music starts BEFORE that part that was censored, but for the censored part there is a quality shift of the music, like it was on the stem they added in for that censored part. It's very bizarre. I listened to it repeatedly and that's my impression. Unfortunately, this still doesn't answer the main question of whether it was there and still should be there or whether it was there but they did actually removed it just prior to release...

[crissrudd4554]

Ha very interesting. We might have to make three versions.

1. LD PCM synced to BD, with fixes

2. LD PCM synced to BD, with fixes and with crackle reduced

3. LD PCM synced to BD, reconstruction

I know that sounds like a lot but it doesnt hurt to keep the doors opened Regardless this is gonna be one of hell of a mix once its completed!!!

[jerryshadoe]

Yeah, I mentioned the fact that there might be three versions of this once it's completed, with the third being "option 2" on your list

I just have an assload of life stuff going on that has to take priority (although I will continue to work on this in the evenings) We have to move out by the end of the month, there are more people applying for places than are available and we still haven't managed to get in anywhere. It's a VERY stressful time right now and we might end up in one of those monthly-rental motels for a month or two until we can manage to find something

Hoping something finally "gives" within the next 22 days...

[crissrudd4554]

I feel you my friend. My father has been desperately seeking work for over a year and has only picked up a few things here and there. Recently hes gotten a township job and a job at a country club so hopefully itll get better for him. And as I said before take all the time you need. As you said you have other priorites that outweigh this which is natural and I totally respect that! Id like to think were all a team now! All for one and one for all!!!!

[jerryshadoe]

I appreciate that you understand that life comes first. That's one of the things that I LOVE about THIS community - we are all pursuing a passionate hobby of restoring/preserving audio/video projects and there is a mutual respect and understanding that this is just a hobby (even if a very exciting one) It's why I don't post nearly anything outside of this forum in relation to these kinds of projects, because elsewhere people act like demanding, self-entitled, spoiled, little brats, and if you don't "deliver" right away... the haters and the trolls "come out to play." (and in other places, NO ONE is EVER satisfied and always DEMAND perfection while contributing NOTHING themselves... well, maybe not "no one" but nearly...sigh)

So, again, thanx for being a reasonable person

Ok, now on-topic:

Since the consensus, which I agree with, is that there should be three "versions" of the audio "upgrade" (and it really is an upgrade of the horrible BD audio, even the older DVD audio which is a lossy 192kbps AC3 sounds better) I want to get the first one out of the way first, since it was pretty much complete already...

BUT!!!.... First, I need an "outside" (as in, not my ears) opinion of which insert of the uncensored dialog (the God bit) blends better with the LD PCM track... To me, there are advantages and disadvantages to the way either one sounds and I can't make up my mind... Once this part is decided, (although I already have the audio rendered for entire film with either option) I will have the "unfiltered LD PCM synced to BD" version one completed:victory:

So, these are both 426KB each and I intentionally don't tell you guys what source is used for either one, so as to get a completely unbiased opinion...

"MIX B" : https://mega.nz/#!ZAI23QrI!qjf4ZmWUva0_h...sjuhfHgy8g

"MIX C" : https://mega.nz/#!NVhnGIiC!LcmOI6UoqY6wZ...pUK4nNLU-s

EDIT: If the general consensus ends up being that they BOTH sound like crap, I can still try a couple of things but I'm not sure if I'll be able to do much better
EDIT2: I am still testing numerous settings and starting to get some closer matches that blend better, although I would still like an opinion about Mix B and Mix C

[crissrudd4554]

Well of the two you posted I like mixB slightly better than mixC. MixB the transition to 'feels like to be God!' is a little less noticeable than in mixC although not by much. I replayed the one track you posted a few days ago which didnt sound that bad. The thunder in the background sounded nice which really was almost inaudible on every release of the film on video in English with the line restored. I dont know. I cant really decide. You may have to rely on instinct on this unless some other people check it out and post opinions.