[In progress] "The Terminator" 1984 home-made what-if Dolby Stereo mix

[Beber]

Hey, guys.

Since I just learned to deal with multichannel editing in Resolve, I just started this project. 

Option 1: use the mono or Chace fake stereo mix for the front stage, meaning Left + Center + Right. Use TFM audio tool to generate fake surround channels for the Left side surround + Right side surround. Use the actual surround channels from the official 5.1 remix (editing out the most egregious modern sounds that don't match the front stage) and merge them on the Left and Right back surround so that I obtain a monophonic surround as would have been in 1984. Use the LFE from the Blu-ray 5.1.



Option 2: the same as option 1 except keeping the real Blu-ray surround channels in stereo, so that I end up transcoding my 7.1 project in PCM 2.0/FLAC 2.0 or 2.1 maybe, so that the true rear stereo gets merged with the front stage, giving the whole thing a sense of stereo, and the AV Receiver will then make it Dolby Surround.

Option 3: the same thing as options 1 and 2, except using Brad Fiedel's score album on the front stereo and use the mono on the Center only. That way, we would have a better stereo feel in the front stage. Now here's the catch: I only have that score in MP3 @ 128 kbps. So If anybody can chime in to provide the score in lossless, that would be better. Of course, I suppose the score is fitting for a 24 fps film print, not for a 23.976 fps Blu-ray cadence and would need to be reencoded losslessly to match a 23.976 cadence.

For now I'm doing it with the French dub of the Chace fake stereo, but TFM, when doing its own fake spacializing thing, created a disagreeable echo on the front stage, so I think I'll change that with the pure mono on the whole front stage (L+C+R) for option 1.

@Stamper, which French mono track is the best technically and the best sync to the 2012 remastered Blu-ray with or without MGM opening logo? I already know for the English track it's the 1991 Laserdisc.

[Beber]

So... my tests work pretty well. Except in the 7.1 configuration, the rear stereo stays stereo. So basically, my "what if Cameron had an audio budget" scenario will turn into a "what if he even made it the most advanced 70mm 6-track with stereo surround". For the alternate track with mono surround, it will happen after I transcode my 7.1 track into 2.1 and the AV Receiver is set to Dolby surround. That alternate track will even inject the rear stereo in the front stage so that we get some stereo feel in the front stage. In the end, I'll obtain a "what if" 70mm 6-track and a "what if" 35mm Dolby Stereo SR. And I think that'll do. I'll scratch the idea of using Fiedel's score. On paper, it's appealing but it’s way too complicated for me.

[izzybell]

I have both copies of the Brad Fidel score (the original 1984 Enigma CD and the Expanded Edition) in FLAC. They sound about the same I just got both for completionism. I'll be happy to provide them if you want to look into the score thing more.

[Beber]

I have both copies of the Brad Fidel score (the original 1984 Enigma CD and the Expanded Edition) in FLAC. They sound about the same I just got both for completionism. I'll be happy to provide them if you want to look into the score thing more.

Okay, thanks. It will be better than mp3 @ 128 kbps for sure. But like I said, it's a good idea on paper but I would likely lose all my hair trying to use the score as a front stage stereo.

[Beber]

Hmm... Working on the English track tonight, I noticed the official 5.1 remix is out of sync in the rear channels by +4 frames (about 167ms) at least from the moment they escape the parking garage until the end of the car chase resulting in Reese being arrested. Those single "dings" in the suspenseful cue sounded like they were duplicated by mistake instead of mirroring those from the front channels, and gunshot impacts were too late so that it even sounded like they were not related to any gunshot. So while deleting the most annoying modern sounds, I fixed that scene as well.

By the way, I ditched any track generated by TFM and duplicated the mono instead with volume reduction and EQ to reduce the dialog frequencies in the fake surrounds so that we don’t hear the dialog echoing there too much. When downmixed to 5.1, they'll merge with the real surround channels and fill the gap where a modern effect was removed.

[Stamper]

You read my mind! I wanted to do this but the latest fudging with his films turned me off from them a bit. I say use a VHS mono track for the french mono, for some reason they don't have the desynchronising during the police precinct scene.

Chace mono is the cleanest for the original mono.

[Beber]

Okay, thanks. Since the Chace is fake stereo anyway and you already did the sync job to the Blu-ray, I'll use it for all 3 front channels and the side surrounds.

[Stamper]

I fixed both french tracks re the desynchronising, so you can use any of them, the stereo fake one is nice and would fit your project, on second thought.

[Beber]

Okay, thanks. So now the project is a "discrete" 7.1 track, or maybe 5.1 so that the surrounds are merged for everybody, with some stereo in the surround stage, and a downmixed matrixed 2.0 track, or maybe 2.1, with some stereo in the front stage and mono surround when decoded by an AV Receiver in Dolby Surround. So basically a semblance of a 70mm 6-track and a semblance of a 35mm Dolby Stereo, as if Cameron had the budget at the time. And all that for both original English and the French dub.

[Beber]

So... the project is now 7.1 only, but for those equiped with 7.1, you should listen to it in 5.1 nonetheless as the merging of the fake surrounds with the real surrounds will help to seamlessly hide the removal of the most egregious modern sounds. In a real 7.1 installation, I'm afraid you might notice holes. I tried doing the downmix natively on my end, but it didn't work as well as expected, whereas a 7.1 downmixed by the AV Receiver in a 5.1 installation does the job very well.

I have the provisional version ready to share with people willing to give it a listen and report back. Ask for it by PM. It's synced to the 2012 Blu-ray with MGM logo opening. I suspect the volume levels will need some adjustment, so if you guys have a well calibrated 5.1 installation, that would be cool to tell me what I should fix. Since this is an hybrid of 2 sources, I'm sure a more qualified member will be able to tell me what's wrong so I can balance the whole mix better. I'm afraid the surrounds are still too loud and could use an extra -6 dB as I did on the fly with my AV Receiver to try and find the sweet spot.
I also don't have a subwoofer (as I do have neighbors), so comment on that too if something's wrong on the LFE.

As a reminder, here's what I did:
Left: LD 1991 mono, -3 dB
Right: LD 1991 mono, -3 dB
Center: LD 1991 mono, 0 dB
LFE: Blu-ray 5.1, 0 dB
Left Surround: LD 1991 mono, -8 dB, EQ low-pass filter 7 kHz
Right Surround: LD 1991 mono, -8 dB, EQ low-pass filter 7 kHz
Back Left Surround: Blu-ray 5.1 edited to remove egregious modern sounds, -8 dB
Back Right Surround: Blu-ray 5.1 edited to remove egregious modern sounds, -8 dB

For the definitive version, after your feedbacks, I'm even considering deleting the fake surrounds in the T-800 POV red vision shots to only keep the real surrounds there. There might be a couple of other moments it could be done, but only on a hard cut with a change of scenery that don't rely on an audio transition or even music to bridge 2 scenes, or else it will be jarring to go back and forth with the fake surrounds on the whole movie. Or maybe I can use +/- 3 dB fade-ins and fade-outs to use the fake surrounds sporadically so that I can get rid of most of the dialog echos in the surround stage and still use them to hide the holes in the real surrounds. That worth a shot...