(2016-03-02, 04:23 PM)jerryshadoe Wrote: I did see your posts and I will address them (as some become self-explanatory with my "sync changelog notes") as soon as I have completed the work

The tinkering with the BD audio was JUST an idea because of the results I noticed I was getting for the parts where I have to splice in BD audio because it's missing on the LD...

Believe it or not, I'm still not finished... it's getting closer, but I am re-checking stuff and I'd rather take an extra day or two and make sure it's done right and it is not yet... but it's close

Sounds good! I'm excited either way!

Just a little update:

I finished going through the audio and then made a second render, only to realize when I went through it that there were still a couple of things I missed and a couple that I want to see if I can correct better. I am half-way through my third pass on this right now. Honestly think I that I will be able to finish this tonight (as long as my youngest daughter doesn't try to stay up with me all night, like she has the last couple of nights, LOL)

Once I have it finished and go through it one more time, I will start on making a "cleaned" version of the audio as well, but that part will NOT take me as long as the syncing work did and if I finish the syncing work tonight, there's a good chance that I will also finish the cleaned version tonight.

The list of cuts to re-sync the audio and fixes for audio-drop-outs, exceeds 80 already and might end up being as high as nearly 100 for a film that's only 70 minutes long

I saw your post in the Heavy Metal thread and Im just curious if this will beat the record!! XD

My record, no; but it does have a lot more cuts than the average sync job (keeping in mind a ratio of cuts versus runtime) and it is a lot more than Heavy Metal.

There a lot of weird things about this BD audio for Frankenstein that I will go over when I list my changelog. Especially when it comes to the censored line and the way that it was actually cut twice based on what I have seen between all of the transfers (the VHS,LD, a dvd copy I have and the BD) and it looks like part of it WAS actually restored for the VHS/LD/VHS (although, only part of it) and then the BD restored the entire thing, but if you listen closely to each source, (including the BD) you can clearly hear (and see on a spectral analysis) that the audio goes from source A to source B and then on the BD it further goes on to source C. I will have a very detailed account of the exact dialog break-down by source and possibly some timecodes for those that wish to verify my hypothesis.

Now I'm off to go do laundry and then eat dinner. Looking forward to finishing this tonight.

Well as I said before, it almost sounds as if the reason they've stuck with the same track since 2004 is likely so that line fits better. I dont know if this is the exact reason but from what I'm picking up from this discussion and considering that the track they keep using meshes well with that line this would be my guess. Going back to the video I posted a couple posts ago, sourced from the 1999 DVD, you can easily tell where they spliced in the line and where the audio quality changes. If you listen very, very carefully again you can even hear a little 'stutter' towards the end of the scene marking where the spliced in track cuts back to the main track. This is also another thing I forgot to mention that for some reason has been cut from every video release since 1999 but you can hear this on the LD track and the VHS track. When that scene fades out you can hear a split second of Henry exhaling again. It actually almost sounds like he sneezes. Oddly this has been cut since 1999.

Excellent job guys just keep in mind a few things:
First that all the classic Uni horrors, particularly Drac and Frankenstein were reprinted endlessly and then submitted to cuts when re-run for Production Code censorship for revivals. Thus they're going to be filled with degradation, missing frames, even more degraded audio etc. I can imagine syncing is a nightmare.
The restored line had to be sourced from the optical sound discs that had been found a few years before the '99 disc. As far as I can tell they merely inserted the missing line which was cut out by the code in the late 30's. (So glad it's back, to me it's probably the most memorable in the entire film.) Maria at the lake etc. had been put back on the 80's LD/VHS sourced like KING KONG's cuts I think from 16mm.
I too miss the hiss on the BD set, but it was the first time they took proper care to do the monsters right. It may not be perfect but it's largely good and far better than the continual things they did when uninformed folks mucked about on the DVDs in 2004 and 2006 etc. to "fix" what they thought was "broken". I think it's this that caused many of the issues we've seen, and my only concern with the BDs is perhaps too much usage of NR in removing the hiss.

This is a bit of a long post so stick with me. For the most part the films came out great on the BDs. My biggest complaint is the audio on Frankenstein. Its a bit flat and muffled. It sounds like a towel was placed over the speaker. The mix on the BD is essentially the same mix they have been using since the 2004 DVD. If you go back to the videos I shared in my first post you'll see that this mix is also missing bits. I mentioned this over at Classic Horror Film Board shortly after the BD's came out and got mixed responses. Someone even mentioned that he wasnt fully convinced those bits were supposed to be there anyways and were added later. IIRC he said he had some background in sound design so perhaps he has a point. However, unless someone can prove to me otherwise, which I think at this stage would be very difficult, I have to base my argument on the idea that those bits were always supposed to be there. Also I have the 1980 VHS which is missing the bits but is not missing the bit from the scene where the people are knocking and shouting at the entrance door. IMO the 1999 DVD had the best audio of the DVD releases and also had the missing bits but the track sounds like it was heavily DNR'd and just sounds quiet. 

Dracula was another film where I wasnt fully pleased with the audio on some of the DVDs. The 1999 DVD IMO sounded very good but the ones after, like Frankenstein, sounded muffled. In fact, to my ears it almost sounded like it was being played over a radio. It almost sounded static-y. The BD for that film, and even the 2014 DVD, sounded much better. However it appears that not much else was done with Frankenstein beyond making the film look the best it has in its 80+ year existence! I will say that the Monster BD's came out great for the most but I cant bring myself to say they were 'careful' in all departments. Below I'll give my ratings of the BD's.

Dracula (1931)- Video: 9/10, Audio: 8/10 Without a doubt the best this movie has been presented. Nice to see that ugly cut in the opening credits finally fixed.

Dracula (Spanish 1931)- Video: 8/10, Audio: 8/10 Certain scenes have heavy grain and wear for obvious reasons but still not bad.

Frankenstein (1931)- Video: 8/10, Audio: 6/10 I pretty much made my case with this film above. Definitely the best its looked.

The Mummy (1932)- Video: 9/10, Audio: 8/10 This was a bit of an eye opener. It actually is a big improvement over the 2008 DVD which even at that time was an improvement over the previous DVD releases.

The Invisible Man (1933)- Video: 9/10, Audio: 8/10 Looks great. Nice to see the piece of music that was replaced by something else on the previous releases finally restored.

Bride of Frankenstein (1935)- Video: 8/10, Audio: 8/10 Looks pleasing. My big complaint is the 'fix' they did to a shot of the Monster approaching the hermit's cabin. Before it began with a farther shot which cut to a closer shot. Now the farther shot is enlarged to match the closer shot and as a result you can notice a noticeable jump cut which also results in a tree branch that was waving in the foreground in the wide shot to magically 'disappear'. (rolls eyes)

The Wolf Man (1941)- Video: 8/10, Audio: 9/10 This looks to be the same print from the 2010 DVD. It looks rather well and pleasing considering.

Phantom of the Opera (1943)- Video: 8/10, Audio: 9/10 This looks really good. Perhaps a bit over-saturated at times but not bad. This film is very underrated IMO.

Creature from the Black Lagoon- Video: 8/10, Audio: 9/10 This looks pretty close to the 2004 DVD. I was a little disappointed that the 4:3 image was cropped to 16:9 but technically this would be how it was presented theatrically anyways.

@ captainsolo - Indeed, the syncing is a bitch. Not the worst project I've worked on, but it's up there. There is TONS of degradation noticeable where in the same scene I noticed the quality changing from line to line of dialog - even when being spoken by the same person. Some lines sound almost crystal clear, while some sound like a dupe of a dupe of a dupe of a dupe (well, you get the idea) of an audio cassette tape. The interesting thing when comparing the LD to BD is the fact that I can tell that it's the same mix (except for a couple very minor instances which I'll address later in my "sync changelog notes") and all they did was apply an overzealous amount of NR, normalized the track in many parts of the film (although it's not all uniform throughout the film) EQ'ed the shit out of it and then amplified it to various degrees throughout the film. The result is a muffled and very shallow sounding audio track (that kinda sounds like you're listening through a funnel, yes Funnel - not a typo) and actually has a MUCH higher noise plain in most of the movie. Yes, there are parts that sound "cleaner" and have less noise than the LD, but overall on a whole, the BD audio is actually more noisy. The audio techs that worked on this should have their ears checked. Furthermore, you're also correct that there are many missing frames in the audio, which were left "as-is" on the LD but they tried to fix on the BD (the only thing I give them credit for) BUT with VERY mixed results. There are some instances where they did a decent job, but in some cases the fact that they filled in a missing spot sounds worse than just the leaving the audio missing. The reason I know that they fucked it up is because I have been able to address most (but not all, there are a couple of instances where trying to fix it made it worse and I left things "as-is") of those areas and make the audio seamless. I am NOT a professional (although I have learned a LOT in nearly 20 years of working on audio as a passionate hobby) and don't have access to all of the sources the people at the studio did and I was able to do a better job. Something is wrong with that picture.

STATUS UPDATE: I worked on some of the audio last night before I passed out. I have the last 12 minutes of the film to go through before I am done and this is the WORST part of the film. The amount of audio drop-outs spikes and there are some major re-syncing issues that I still need to finish addressing. I was really hoping to have this finished last night, but didn't realize just how bad these last few minutes are.

(2016-03-05, 01:56 AM)jerryshadoe Wrote: I am NOT a professional (although I have learned a LOT in nearly 20 years of working on audio as a passionate hobby) and don't have access to all of the sources the people at the studio did and I was able to do a better job. Something is wrong with that picture.

How do you think Harmy feels?! Hehe You're the best jerryshadoe. At least I realize that my hearing wasn't bad. If I'm understanding you correctly, then it truly is a major head scratcher as why they keep using this mix. Also that funnel comparison Im not gonna lie is pretty accurate. Once I showed my comparison video to my mother and had her listen to with ear phones since I found the differences are a bit easier to spot that way and keep in mind my mother does not have an ear for things like this like I do haha. However her reaction to the BD audio, just from my sampled video was 'Why does it sound like there's a water fall in the background??'. With that I knew she got it. It's just a mystery which considering it wasn't restored for the BD most likely won't be solved!

I'm sure that a lot of us in the community feel the same way.

You're hearing is most definitely not bad

I suspect that they keep on using this mix for lack of any better sources. A lot of stuff from that era is plagued with similar problems, due to damage caused by age and the method of storing, the depression and WWII, etc. A lot of stuff has been permanently lost and I'm grateful that this film is not one of those instances, but it suffered from some of these problems too hence the state of the audio