Regarding the 'lipsync' fix on the Turbine BD, could someone elaborate? From what I can glean online they 'fixed' something which no-one else even noticed on multiple previous releases.

That statement was from Turbine themselves. They basically just said that the sync was off with previous releases and they corrected it. Hopefully PDB can confirm now that he has all the different versions.

Yeah that’s my remembrance also.

And that’s why I’m redoing Scavenger's 2.0. Not because he did something wrong but because I want to see how the lip sync lines up on the Turbine for myself. I still plan to use his 4.1 and 5.1 because why should I redo all his hard work.

I assume the problems arise from not taking into account the missing or additional frames in the test scene?

If it really is better then I’ll use it as the basis for resyncing the 2.0s and the other discrete tracks.

As far as I remember reading a German Forum at the time of release Turbine said there were numerous points during the film where the sync was slightly off in all tracks going back to theatrical (maybe not totally noticeable by ear), nothing to do with the extra frames of the test scene which 354ms is significant and easily noticeable.

From Turbine announcement:

Quote:All audio tracks worldwide had slight sync issues before. These were corrected.

I can tell for sure the Italian track has sync issues, not after test scene but before - around 50m; if all tracks are the same, they should be out of sync in the same place.

Technically if Turbine corrected something that was always there then that's revisionism. I think that that and the supposed gamma correction (and the implied criticism of the Arrow restoration) were to convince buyers to pony up for another release

Have not paid attention to lip sync, but timing of sound effects is improved on Turbine BD when compared to Arrow BD.

Example,

Turbine/Arrow BD - 01:12:38.104


Axe hit sound effect start time:
Turbine BD 2.0ch ~01:12:38.124
Arrow BD 2.0ch ~01:12:38.224

(2021-09-18, 11:34 PM)zoidberg Wrote: Technically if Turbine corrected something that was always there then that's revisionism.

I do not agree; is not possible that it was made on purpose and, even if that could be the case, it should be only on one track, not all..

And, if it's revisionism, what are the color regrading, that is different FOR.ANY.SUBSEQUENT.EDITION?!?

Quote:I think that that and the supposed gamma correction (and the implied criticism of the Arrow restoration) were to convince buyers to pony up for another release

This I agree 100%; checked the caps-a-holic comparison and, apart A VERY SLIGHT difference between them due to compression (and an even slighter color difference, due to... no idea) they share the same master (pixel by pixel); as well as the latest Shout Collector's edition, but in this case they decide to shave few pixels on top (or bottom, or both? can't remember) for no apparent reason!

I dont follow your first point spoRv, according to the Turbine blurb you posted all previous releases (worldwide!) had sync issues which are now fixed in the Turbine release. I don't think things like foley and ADR were as precise back in the analogue years, just 'good enough'.
Regarding the colour grading, given Shout's track record I'm inclined to think the different grading was some sort of incompetence on their part, but yes presenting any film in a different form on video than on film is a form of revision, same with near-field remixing of sound. Unfortunately it's essentially the norm now

Well, I don't think fixing audio sync issues could be called revisionism.

What is revisionism IMHO is of course color grading - that COULD NOT be changed with a player button, while audio tracks could; also, including only a DTS-X track without an original audio track is revisionism.

HDR? Is it revisionism?