iTunes new Dark Knight/DK Rises master

[Chewtobacca]

^ I don't have the player, but in December the Duo received an update that enabled HDR-to-SDR conversion, so you should be able to make it work somehow and let us know if it makes a difference to the colors on TDK.

[deleted user]

All UHD blu ray players will downconvert HDR to SDR usually with an adjustable range. Some players are better than other players at this. So it is possible, like Tom says it's a case of remapping values and interpreting metadata.

Metadata isn't really important, luckily. You have the source values and you map them to the output values and voila.

Then I bet one of our wizards here will end up doing something like that, for sure. It's the Dark Knight trilogy, for Christ sake!

I can't... I use only 8bit...

Meaning that the 10-bit entry is the issue or that you couldn't create a 10-bit video? I'd be fine with an 8-bit final rendering.

The input is the issue. You wanna have the full 10-bit input range for the regrading. Rendering as 10-bit is a bonus (with x264 10-bit), but not the issue.

It's important because in most normal scenes I've seen in HDR, not even half the available dynamic range is used (easy to see on a histogramm). This means that effectively maybe 9 bit are actually used in most scenes. But when you import that video in normal AviSynth, the original 10-bit lose their least significant bits (in other words, precision required to eliminate banding) and you effectively end up with maybe 7 bit of actual color information, which is 128 values per channel, which sucks!

[deleted user]

Did another comparison! (have auto-aligned the pictures in Photoshop, so they overlap perfectly and the differences become more obvious)

Blu Ray:
   

PDB:
   

iTunes:
   

Definitely quite the difference in color to both the Blu Ray and PDB version. Gotta say I like it! The fact that the iTunes image also shows ever so slightly more on the bottom also indicates to me that it is indeed a different master.

Here's a screenshot comparison between the Blu Ray and the iTunes one: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/129685

Here's a screenshot comparison between PDB's regrade and the iTunes one: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/129686

[Beber]

They f***ed up the bottom framing of this shot in the UHD remaster:



And see? This is also how bland the colors look when I play it on my equipement. Even after tweaking the color, contrast, brightness, etc., I can never get true reds for instance. The Netflix logo that starts a Stranger Things episode is supposed to be red and all I get is orange, dammit!

[CSchmidlapp]

I was researching The Dark Knight trilogy some years ago for a project.
http://originaltrilogy.com/topic/The-Dar...n/id/17401

I guess, based on what we could all put together there are 3 theatrical 'masters' put together on it's original run.

IMAX
35MM
2K DCP

All had different colour timings based inherently on the different technology's at play.
The DCP would of been digitally graded and I presume, done under the supervision of Nolan and Wally Pfister.
I came to the conclusion that this was probably close to the original trailers and the new 4K master.

The 35mm negative would have been colour timed and printed to internegatives for release prints. The print process for the 35mm release print part would of added another layer of variation also.
https://fanrestore.com/thread-1415-post-...l#pid27927
This 35mm negative would of been re scanned (or the original Neg scans for editing we're of high enough quality to begin with) to go through a DMR process upscale and printed back to film to cut into the IMAX master.
The IMAX negative would have again been colour timed and gone through the same release print process

I believe it was the IMAX inter-positive used for the blu ray, but further tinkered with.
I think the Digital Master made from this was used for all home media. The HDTV version with the 2:35:1 framing in the IMAX footage is exacly the same as the BLU, with a slight magenta push in the IMAX sequences. The framing is also the same as the DVD release.

Im unsure of the specs of the new 4K master. Is it a complete remaster from the ONeg? Or an intermediate?
Ive not watched it yet just seen the screens

[CSchmidlapp]

They f***ed up the bottom framing of this shot in the UHD remaster:



And see? This is also how bland the colors look when I play it on my equipement. Even after tweaking the color, contrast, brightness, etc., I can never get true reds for instance. The Netflix logo that starts a Stranger Things episode is supposed to be red and all I get is orange, dammit!

Yes, that is not being converted properly.

[deleted user]

They f***ed up the bottom framing of this shot in the UHD remaster:



And see? This is also how bland the colors look when I play it on my equipement. Even after tweaking the color, contrast, brightness, etc., I can never get true reds for instance. The Netflix logo that starts a Stranger Things episode is supposed to be red and all I get is orange, dammit!

Yeah the colorspace of UHD HDR is a bit weird, it's not trivial to get really good results. For instance, I think that HDR colorspace viewed in SDR always has a noticeable shift to green.

That said, I went ahead and regraded your UHD shot to the iTunes master using DrDre's ColorMatch. Here's a comparison between UHD, iTunes and UHD regraded to iTunes: https://diff.pics/7cEUpMBglGhv/1

Seems to have worked okay, only place I see some mild mismatch is the face (may be due to compression artifacts in iTunes) and in the lights of the "GNS" boot. I imagine this will become better with more samples to use.

[Stamper]

Beber does your box output 5.1 via optical without downmixing? Cause I'm interested but they say in the specs that HDMI downmix 5.1 audio to stereo and that's a no no for me. A box like this should output sound as is, no downmixing.

Regarding HDR yep, if viewed without the correct output, it will look greyish that's totally normal. It's weird the box doesn't downconverts HDR to Rec709 as an option from the get go since it downconverts 5.1 to 2.0. These are the moments where you would want the engineer guys who devised this to be next to you and go Bale on them and slap them LOL

"What don't you effin' understand?! You want me to thrash your box? You want me to effin' trash it?!" LOL

It's like "here's a CD player, but it will only output mono sound" WHAT?!

[Beber]

Beber does your box output 5.1 via optical without downmixing? Cause I'm interested but they say in the specs that HDMI downmix 5.1 audio to stereo and that's a no no for me. A box like this should output sound as is, no downmixing.

Regarding HDR yep, if viewed without the correct output, it will look greyish that's totally normal. It's weird the box doesn't downconverts HDR to Rec709 as an option from the get go since it downconverts 5.1 to 2.0. These are the moments where you would want the engineer guys who devised this to be next to you and go Bale on them and slap them LOL

"What don't you effin' understand?! You want me to thrash your box? You want me to effin' trash it?!" LOL

It's like "here's a CD player, but it will only output mono sound" WHAT?!

"Oh, good for you!"

By "box", you mean the Zappiti One? I don't go with downmixing, WTF? It's connected via HDMI to my receiver that even decodes Atmos and dts-X (although I only have a 5-channel speaker set-up), so why would I downmix to 2.0 stereo only? Via optical, I don't know what would happen as I'm HDMI all the way and of course the audio is conveyed to my receiver as is.

[Stamper]

It's written in the specs on the site. I need to research this, cause otherwise, your box looks awesome as a replacement to my old WDTV

"Audio Home Cinéma multicanal : Bitstream et downmix stéréo (DTS, DTS-HD MA, DTS-HD HRA, DTS:X, Dolby Digital, Dolby Digital EX, Dolby Digital Plus, Dolby TrueHD, Dolby Atmos). Attention! Les formats sonores HD multicanal ne sont pas transmis en SPDIF (nécessitent obligatoirement du HDMI) et sont downmixé en stéréo en raison des limitations de débit du SPDIF."

So hopefully I get this right, SPDIF output is downmixed, but optical or HDMI do output multi-channel?

That part in the specs is confusing, I don't know anybody who output multi channel via SPDIF