[Request] Scarface (1983) 4.0 original mix

[Stamper]

Hi guys,

I'm currently trying to gather all mixes of Scarface 83 that aren't on the new 4K or Blu-ray for resyncs.

The Blu-ray have the original Dolby Surround 2.0 but it appears that this original mix was released in foreign countries in 4.0 discrete which would make it the best version of the original mix out there.

It's available in the following countries:

R2 Denmark - Universal Pictures
Collector's Edition
TV System: PAL
Soundtrack(s):English Dolby Digital 4.0
German Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono
Case type:Keep Case

R2 Holland - Universal Pictures
Collector's Edition
TV System: PAL
Soundtrack(s):English Dolby Digital 4.0
Case type:Keep Case

R2 France - Columbia Tristar Home Entertainment
Collector's Edition
TV System: PAL
Soundtrack(s):English Dolby Digital 4.0
French Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono

R2 Italy - Universal Pictures
TV System: PAL
Soundtrack(s):English Dolby Digital 4.0
Italian Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono
Case type:Keep Case

R2 United Kingdom - Universal Pictures
Collector's Edition
TV System: PAL
Soundtrack(s):English Dolby Digital 4.0
German Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono

R4 Australia - Columbia Tristar Home Entertainment
Collector's Edition
TV System: PAL
Soundtrack(s):English Dolby Digital 4.0
German Dolby Digital 2.0 Mono

If you own one of these I would be happy with an extraction of the 4.0 track for preservation

THX

[BDgeek]

I’m also very much interested in the original Scarface (1983) mix, but I would bet the best version by far is the Widescreen LD PCM track.

It would be awesome to have it synced to the UHD

[BDgeek]

Ok, update news!

I've checked Universal's International Blu-ray release and it's the same disc for all the countries you listed above. The english track is DTS 2.0 at 448kbps per scan bellow. I don't know if it's indeed the original mix, but it's the same track available on the original US Blu-ray. But if you're interested, I can get it for you in few days, just send me a PM.

I'm also trying to put together this complete version of Scarface mixes, and no doubt the LD track would be the one to go after.

And just for the sake of information, the DTS-HD MA 7.1 track presented on both the original blu-ray and the remastered one are the same, even though they have different bitrates. Once decoded to PCM they result in the same track, and it's not judging by the ear or the eye (wave lenghs), I've checked with a file comparison software. So it's just a different encode of the same track, and both are in sync with the UHD.

Code:

DISC INFO:

Disc Title:     Scarface (1983)
Disc Size:      47.614.816.284 bytes
Protection:     AACS
BD-Java:        Yes
BDInfo:         0.5.8

PLAYLIST REPORT:

Name:                   00800.MPLS
Length:                 2:50:00.148 (h:m:s .ms)
Size:                   41.216.698.368 bytes
Total Bitrate:          32,33 Mbps

VIDEO:

Codec                   Bitrate             Description   
-----                   -------             -----------   
VC-1 Video              19159 kbps          1080p / 23,976 fps / 16:9 / Advanced Profile 3
VC-1 Video              1666 kbps           480p / 23,976 fps / 16:9 / Advanced Profile 2

AUDIO:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description   
-----                           --------        -------         -----------   
Dolby Digital Audio             Japanese        448 kbps        5.1 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps
DTS-HD Master Audio             English         5682 kbps       7.1 / 48 kHz / 5682 kbps / 24-bit (DTS Core: 5.1 / 48 kHz / 1509 kbps / 24-bit)
DTS Audio                       English         448 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps / 24-bit
DTS Audio                       French          448 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps / 24-bit
DTS Audio                       Italian         448 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps / 24-bit
DTS Audio                       German          448 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps / 24-bit
DTS Audio                       Spanish         448 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 448 kbps / 24-bit
DTS Express                     English         192 kbps        2.0 / 48 kHz / 192 kbps / 24-bit

SUBTITLES:

Codec                           Language        Bitrate         Description   
-----                           --------        -------         -----------   
Presentation Graphics           Japanese        20,587 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           English         38,864 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           French          32,038 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Italian         32,810 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           German          36,312 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         34,641 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Dutch           33,210 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Chinese         27,468 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Danish          29,682 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Finnish         31,960 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Korean          20,598 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Norwegian       32,239 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Portuguese      32,511 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Swedish         28,944 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Chinese         28,850 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Japanese        25,192 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           English         38,348 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           French          34,372 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Italian         33,554 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           German          38,468 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         35,246 kbps                   
Presentation Graphics           Japanese        0,360 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           English         0,782 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           French          0,863 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Italian         0,693 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           German          0,968 kbps                     
Presentation Graphics           Spanish         0,099 kbps

Edit: Update 2:

WOW it hadn't occurred to me the the UHD and remastered BD have this same DTS 2.0 track but in 748kbps!

I still don't know if it's the original mix, or just a downconversion of the remix, but this should render the previous BD track useless.
But even if it's the original mix, it's probably filtered and re-EQ'ed compared to the LD track.

[Stamper]

I read some reviews from the time and they say it plays as 4.0 and is wrongly labeled.

I already have the Blu-ray and the 4K.

There's no need to sync any of the Dolby Surround tracks from past DVD if they are 2.0, the Blu-ray and 4K have the best versions of this track.

However so far I compiled those two missing tracks not on the 4K or Blu-ray:

- Original english DTS 5.1 remix with original sound stems
I synced it to the 4K. the 4.0 tracks are great and use the M&E stems, but the center is doctored and hacked to ressemble a regular center track. Nonetheless, it's better than the remix.

- Original french AC3 5.1 remix from the Platinum
This crap remix is a fake stereo/5.1 mix, nonetheless, it's unique to this release not on the 4K or Blu. I synced it too.

I'm currently working on

- custum french DTS 5.1 remix
I took all the tracks from the DTS remix with original sounds, zapped the center and put the mono french in the center in it's place.
It kills both of the above versions, but french only

[BDgeek]

Hi Stamper,

From your last post, I guess there’s a bit of a mix up with Blu-ray vs DVD tracks.

On the first post you mentioned European Blu-ray, and that’s what I posted on the scan. I don’t know about the DVDs and they may indeed be 4.0. But then you’d have to deal with PAL speed up, and IMO that would throw away the possible benefits of the track.

Personally I’m really sensitive to speed up even if pitch corrected it doesn’t reinstate the original quality.

But you got me really interested on the 5.1 track though. What’s the source for this track? The R1 DVD?

And just out of curiosity, how do you know it’s mixed from the original sound stems?

[Stamper]

There no mix up, I mentioned the Blu-ray and 4K have the original english mix.
But stated the early DVDs have a 4.0 discrete mix.
They may be in Pal only, but getting them to regular speed and pitch is a no brainer.

The 5.1 from the SE is from the M&E track because that is all there is on the stereo channels.
The surround and lfe are produced from the other tracks (lfe is just the total mix with cut off), and the center is clearly extracted from the Dolby Surround and doctored further to fit.

The french 5.1 is crap, they just put the mono mix on all tracks, and applied different processing on it, like removing all bass from center and boosting it on the others channels.

I'm very interested in getting the original Pal french disc back if it's 4.0 as stated it's unique as only being the releases (in foreign countries only) with the limited 70mm 4.0 Mag track (actually, it could have been a 4.2 "baby boom" track, given its release year).

[BDgeek]

Hi Stamper,

the mix up is on my part. When you referred to the 4.0 track I understood you were talking about the original european Blu-ray. Since you were talking about the european DVDs, they may indeed have the 4.0 audio.

As for the speedup and pitch correction, I ask an honest question, do you think the fix is seamless? I mean, does a pitch corrected track sound the same as the original unmolested track?

It was my understanding that such procedures of speeding up a track and then later converting it back were not 'lossless'.

BTW, what's your opinion on this 5.1 versus the other remixes (7.1 and 7.1-X)?

I see the Scarface Signature Selection LD is going for a reasonable price on LDDB, if you or some of our capable members here is interested in ripping and syncing the PCM track to the BD/UHD, I could try secure this LD.

It should be the best version of the original audio available.

[Stamper]

I don't notice any change, as those tracks are usually lossy, I just convert to wav, then convert back to the original format but in a bigger size (to avoid any further damage). It's very important to re-convert to DD if the track is originaly DD, or DTS if originaly DTS.

The 7.1 remix with new sounds are absolute crap, they ruin the music and the sound effects, the climax is horrible because the music is completely gone from the "say hello to my little friend massacre".

The 5.1 initial remix is way better, though it lacks a few music cues that were heard on the center channel in the original mix.

The stereo LR play the music only, with some sound effects, and really widen the stage. It makes the music shine, the inverse of the 7.1 revisitation which IMHO is as bad as the Terminator remix.

[Turisu]

It's very important to re-convert to DD if the track is originaly DD, or DTS if originaly DTS..

Sorry for the necro-bump but I came across this while looking for info on Scarface's original mix. May I ask why it's very important to re-encode an edited track back to its original codec? If one's equipment can handle multichannel PCM is it not optimal to save it as such?

[Stamper]

You could leave it as PCM once upscaled, but it takes space. If you want to re-encode it's important to keep the same codec because codecs works differently at modifying data. Say, if you have an AAC tracks, and reencode it in DD, some data will be truncated and it's going to damage the sound. Because AAC and DD don't work the same way are removing/compressing stuff. Neither does DD and DTS.

So you have the choice, let's say you resync a track that was originaly DD: you either leave it as PCM (which is a bit overkill space wise if it's originaly 192kbps), or you reencode it in DD at 448kbps or 640kbps. The end result will be close to the original with no major compromission.

Same if the track is DTS originaly: you either leave it as PCM or re-encode in DTS, not DD, as this would truncate data differently from the original.

If the source is PCM, and you want to save space, then you're free to either do it in any format.