Terminator 2: Judgment Day - Restored and Regraded (Theatrical & Special Edition)

[borisanddoris]

Awesome. I've decoded the FLAC in eac3to and will turn it into a DTS-HD MA track since my audio processor likes that better. From DTS it came and back to it the track shall go...

[Kreeep]

Yeah. Thought about doing that myself also for compatibility's sake but just decided to keep it as I received it. Hope it works out for you.

[pipefan413]

Is the 2003 CDS mix that’s included the one from the illusive Japanese DVD?

It is indeed the elusive Japanese DVD from 2003, courtesy of @MrBrown and @Chewtobacca. The mix appears to be the original 1991 theatrical CDS (Cinema Digital Sound) one, which also previously appeared on the 1997 US DVD as AC-3 and on LaserDisc before that, but the DTS encode is from that 2003 DVD. For all intents and purposes, the DVD AC-3 should be comparable to the LD because the DVD appears (as far as I'm aware) to have been made from the same master as the LD. They even used the same cover art etc.

Take a look at @pipefan413 's detailed post about different audio mixes out there on this page:

https://fanrestore.com/thread-1876-page-25.html

Specifically, this post: https://fanrestore.com/thread-1876-post-...l#pid62546

Awesome. I've decoded the FLAC in eac3to and will turn it into a DTS-HD MA track since my audio processor likes that better. From DTS it came and back to it the track shall go...

You might want to make sure you apply a negative "delay" in eac3to or something similar in order to remove the 1024 sample silence added by the DTS Suite encoder, if you're not already aware of that (you're probably sick of me talking about it but just in case). I think I actually have a DTS-HD MA encode I made myself but I can't remember where as I'm in the midst of a data storage rearrangement frenzy what with the LaserDisc capture thing and so on.

[borisanddoris]

I'm still not convinced that the 1997 DVD is the same as the LaserDisc in terms of audio. My ears just tell me the LaserDisc sounds better. I'd love to do a scientific test by doing a bit perfect rip of it to compare. DVDs were notorious for AC3 encodes that also kept a down mix in mind for televisions. AC3 LaserDisc tracks and those producing them were probably never even thinking about such things, so from a contextual point of view, it's always likely that a DVD could have a modified encode compared to a LaserDisc of the same or similar vintage. On the other hand, its possible that the master tape was simply re-used but we have no way of proving that. That's why I'd like to see a more scientific test made to find out. Either way, the 1997 encode is solid and to me closer to the 70mm experience. Looking forward to the 2003 dts track.

I knew about the sync issues with the encoder suite, but decided to do a straight mux first and I do not see a sync issue. I'll upload my DTS encode at some point and perhaps someone else can verify my findings.

[pipefan413]

I'm still not convinced that the 1997 DVD is the same as the LaserDisc in terms of audio. My ears just tell me the LaserDisc sounds better. I'd love to do a scientific test by doing a bit perfect rip of it to compare. DVDs were notorious for AC3 encodes that also kept a down mix in mind for televisions. AC3 LaserDisc tracks and those producing them were probably never even thinking about such things, so from a contextual point of view, it's always likely that a DVD could have a modified encode compared to a LaserDisc of the same or similar vintage. On the other hand, its possible that the master tape was simply re-used but we have no way of proving that. That's why I'd like to see a more scientific test made to find out. Either way, the 1997 encode is solid and to me closer to the 70mm experience. Looking forward to the 2003 dts track.

I knew about the sync issues with the encoder suite, but decided to do a straight mux first and I do not see a sync issue. I'll upload my DTS encode at some point and perhaps someone else can verify my findings.

It's not "sync issues", it's one consistent misalignment caused by the encoder inserting 2 DTS frames (at 48 kHz, 512 samples x 2 = 1024 samples) at the start of every single encoded stream. They're then effectively discarded by the authoring software, but freeware muxing stuff doesn't do that so you get left with 1024 samples that shouldn't be there. It's minor, but it's wrong. Obviously up to you if you fix it or not though, hahah. I've written exhaustively about this on both here and The Other Forum.

I've not done a detailed comparison between the AC3 LD, AC3 DVD, and DTS DVD, but certainly you could be correct about the LD being sonically superior. I'm also curious about whether the LD frames line up any better with the 2015 HD encode because the 2003 JP DTS DVD has at least one pretty large problem spot with a whole mess of duplicated frames that kinda make it a nightmare to accurately sync (Chewie appears to have managed however, hats off to him for that). I was doing a resync of it that kept it as DTS to avoid any re-encoding, but that one section was enough to break my patience and I left it for a bit (also the fact Chewie's sync already existed made it less urgent than new captures and other projects).

[zoidberg]

Anyone who had laid down the money for a demodulator and AC-3 receiver back in the day wasn't going to be listening to their LDs through their television. The dynamic range of some LD tracks still blows my mind even now.
I captured the briefest of sections of T2 back when I was getting to grips with capturing LDs, I remember the waveforms being 'different' to the Live DVD but never went any further as at the time the consensus was the JP DTS was the way to go. I can capture a section of the US or JP LD to compare although I can't say when as I'm not set up right now

[pipefan413]

Anyone who had laid down the money for a demodulator and AC-3 receiver back in the day wasn't going to be listening to their LDs through their television. The dynamic range of some LD tracks still blows my mind even now.
I captured the briefest of sections of T2 back when I was getting to grips with capturing LDs, I remember the waveforms being 'different' to the Live DVD but never went any further as at the time the consensus was the JP DTS was the way to go. I can capture a section of the US or JP LD to compare although I can't say when as I'm not set up right now

Well, indeed. I understand AC-3 demodulators are now pretty much gold dust... perhaps one day...

[borisanddoris]

I’ve had and continue to have a functioning laserdisc setup for all formats, just no capture methods. It’s on my to do list to get capturing gear eventually. T2, the Wall, and Mortal Kombat AC3 discs are top on my list to capture. Mortal Kombat is interesting because I feel it sounds better than the DTS pressing.

I also have an AC3 Lost Boys that’s a lot of fun!

[zoidberg]

Demodulators do occasionally pop up at a sane price it's just a case of scouring ebay or goodsquid, obviously if you get a Japanese model you'll need a step-down transformer. The alternative is to get a cheap old AC-3 processor with RF in and use as a pass-through

[borisanddoris]

I use a Sony SDP-E800. Inexpensive and does the job.