[In progress] TERMINATOR 2 Blu-ray regrade to 35mm

[Beber]

Here's for the street scene between the 6 month review and the Galleria :

Rutracker rather warm / Super 35 rather cold green.


Rob's much warmer / old 1080p rather cold blue.


2017 remaster, rather cold green.


Rutracker / Super 35.

Rob's / old 1080p.


It could be one of the scenes where the 2017 3D remaster was not too wrong... It's another head-scratcher 'cause it seems to be the only moment of that day, assuming the Super-35 was not tampered with, when we don't feel the Southern California warmth outside. The morning felt warmer and sunny and, of course, the chase approaching dusk time. Since it's not in real time, we don't know for how long John and his pal were in the Galleria before they were found.

[sanjuro_61]

THe so called Rob's and rutracker are the same scan (exact same specles of dirt on both). White point on Rob's is BADLY made, so, yeah, ignore that one.

Honestly, I would not match the colors to any of the prints, at least not exactly what you see. If we assume two different prints can look different, then there's no such thing as THE 35mm colors. Needless to say, no matter how passionate we, fans, are, these are, in the end, amateur scans of prints that are often not in the best condition, meaning, the colors may have faded. I've taken a look at last to the super35... most of the daylight scenes look reddish, a bit faded/washed out to me (pretty much all of them except for those before the galleria).
Use the best looking one as reference, of course (and also, I wouldn't use colormatch either, as all of them have their flaws. Use the color wheels in Resolve, or whatever, to get the desired looks, that's the way. ).

[Beber]

There is THE grading. It’s on the IP. Prints are made out of it and their looks vary mildly, depending on film stock: Fuji, Kodak... But overall they all look about the same. The differences are negligible to the general audience. Now what we have here are several amateur scans with further processing and alterations afterwards... or not. The problem is we know Rob alters them with LUTs, we don’t know what the Rutracker guys did to obtain their grading of the same scan, and we don’t know what the "Super-35" guys did either after their scanning process. We don’t know what the "old 1080p" guys did to their scan either (the one with the missing bit when John is crying in the car). There's no way in 1991 people saw a blue scene in a theater that someone else saw warm in another theater and another one saw green whether they were Fuji, Kodak, Eastman... The mild differences cannot be this drastic. I did attend an actual screening and have a general idea on how it looks like and have some shots in mind, but I don’t have recollections of every scene specificities obviously. Overall, the Rutracker and the "Super-35" are quite similar looking and match the overall look I want to obtain as I saw it myself, so I figure the "old 1080p" and photographs will serve as referees when there are drastic discrepancies... and maybe testimonies from people who will go to the Prince Charles Cinema from late August to late September.

[Beber]

For those wondering, and who managed to get the "Super 35" scan, it's in sync with the 2015 Blu-ray with a +44 frame initial delay, so +1835 ms and any audio or subtitle track in sync with the 2015 Blu-ray will match the "Super 35" scan.

[sanjuro_61]

Just don't be too obsessed to get the exact colors you see on the scans.

[BobbyMishima]

I think that T2 is getting a re-release of the orignal 35mm and 70mm showings in select locations on Aug 29th this year

Maybe if someone could get to the 70mm ones and take some snapshots of the colouring used on some of these scenes, i have seen a trailer for it and it does indeed look very much like this alternate scan, especially as there are some green shots in the t800 and t1000 first meet scene so i think they were originally that colour pallet but the added teal on the 2017 release makes it look extra sickly plus messing up some laser tints too and of course the DNR

The actual original 1991 35mm and 70mm film prints that features the original CDS 5.1 mix rerelease in public? I hope wrong about this, but fingers-crossed though if these do turn out to be new film prints cut from the badly 2017 4k remaster.

[Beber]

Today I watched the "Super 35" projected and thought it looked quite consistent with my memory of the print I saw around 2014-2015. It's rarely pure blue and rather cyan blue with the darker blue parts looking purplish and that's how I remember it. Also, the fire and explosions are rather yellow than orange, so that's good, too. And I figured the color grading really is not the worst thing on the 2017 disaster. They mostly tried to emulate the original look, but as per usual with current remasters, they went with the wrong dosage of green and blue and it turned out teal instead of cyan. I have yet to see the full Rutracker in the same projection conditions, so for now, the "Super 35" clearly is my favorite reference.

[BobbyMishima]

Today I watched the "Super 35" projected and thought it looked quite consistent with my memory of the print I saw around 2014-2015. It's rarely pure blue and rather cyan blue with the darker blue parts looking purplish and that's how I remember it. Also, the fire and explosions are rather yellow than orange, so that's good, too. And I figured the color grading really is not the worst thing on the 2017 disaster. They mostly tried to emulate the original look, but as per usual with current remasters, they went with the wrong dosage of green and blue and it turned out teal instead of cyan. I have yet to see the full Rutracker in the same projection conditions, so for now, the "Super 35" clearly is my favorite reference.

Some of the inconsistent scenes I have experienced, possibly due to different reels were from Sarah Connor being restraint from attacking Dr Silberman to the first few seconds of T-000 on foot chasing John Connor while the latter was on his dirt bike inside the parking lot. They were somewhat of a unintentionally Teal-n-green until it shift towards to John Connor exiting the parking lot. However, the rest of the movie before and after those particular scenes I had described looks fine to me.

[immortalverse]

OP any updates on this?

[Beber]

I have restarted from scratch using the "Super 35" scan as reference. The opening grading I made before was largely based on Rob's scan with its shifts in color grading because of his LUTs. Also, I discussed with Gemini the first half of reel 2 with its rather cold green tone, from Sarah's 6 months review to John leaving the parking garage at the Galleria (except the Cyberdyne scene where we meet Dyson in a long shot from the open space to the vault), and Gemini told me it was meant to be that way to express Sarah's state of mind with a certain light coming from the side window, plus the outside shots with Arnie driving around on his bike, locating John and his friend, the T-1000 asking girls in the streets, etc. were shot under a cloudy weather over L.A. Gemini gave me the name of this weather thing that happens during October, I believe, but I forgot. So basically, even if it wasn't intended to look like that on paper, Cameron and Greenberg had to make do with what they had regarding the weather, and they didn't want to change that during color timing because the natural lighting wouldn't fit a warmer tone added in post. That could explain why the 2017 remaster disaster, in its 3 rendering variations (SDR, HDR, 3D) kept a rather green cold look in those scenes as well. So, basically, I'll go along with it and not artificially warm those scenes up to match the other outside daylight scenes. Weather is not a consistent thing, and that applies as well to the truck and bikes chase that was shot during a long period of time with different weather conditions day to day that cannot match shot for shot. As for Sarah's cell, from reel 1, I'll go back to the brownish, beige, cream tone.