Top Gun / Open-matte / 1080p / Multiaudio-multisubs / BD project

[DoomBot]

@ DoomBot - No rush or anything, asking more out of curiosity as I don't need it yet; did you ever have a chance to contact BusterD about ripping the LD audio?

Yes i did and he's on it, I'll pass along the file when it's up and ready. I'm sure BusterD can chime in.

[jerryshadoe]

Well, it been a week since my last update, so I thought I'd share where things are...

Unfortunately, it's been a crazy week dealing with a drunk-as-a-skunk mother-in-law. Enough said, LOL

This has made it extremely hard to concentrate or really have the time to work on the project, however, I am working on it tonight and am passing 107000 frames of 157652. At times, it's taking my computer a little longer to skip from frame to frame because these are two different sources, overlayed at 50/50, at frame size of 2560x1440 displaying and I'm having to spot all the blurred frames and check if it's blending there, whether it's in one or both sources or whether it's just camera-motion blur. sometimes the only way to verify this is to look at the SR-upscaled DVD footage, which I have loaded onto the timeline as well.

So far, from the frames that I have seen that have "issues," (and there is a lot of them) about 60% of them have at least one good frame that I can choose. About 10% of them are kinda bad, noticeable and repairing them will be hard and/or not possible but fortunately it's only one frame at a time here and there and won't really be distracting due to motion in the scene anyway. Then there is the last 30%... these are blended frames that I noticed immediately, because, all of a sudden; the grain is always missing on those frames due to blurring of the different frames together. Fortunately, these are during some very fast scenes, where there is a lot of motion anyway and/or camera-motion-blur (in native footage that I double check with DVD and 2dBD) and it only occurs for a frame at a time. I just have to make sure that these frames get a slightly higher grain level, when I regrain the video, compared to rest of the "good frames." This will help "mask" the damaged frames and make it less noticeable.

I'm still worried about how the hell I'm going to color-match the HDTV to DVD (or vice versa) I have tried a few tests when I got tired of going through the HDTV footage frame by frame, and so far I can't get them to match... like, not even close and it's pissin me off. Granted, I have little experience with it, but have been able to do it successfully for other, personal projects I worked on.

Now I gonna try to go through some more of that HDTV footage

@ DoomBot - Thanx, I really look forward to hearing that file and comparing it to a 2.0 downmixed from the DTS-HDMA audio I'm using from the 2dBD release. I really hope that the file passed along will be the original at 44.1k to have a "true" comparison. Either way, again, many thanx to you for contacting BusterD and many thanx to BusterD for taking the time to make a rip of the audio

[Chewtobacca]

Just so that you know, doubled frames and frames out of order are quite common with video that's not been decoded correctly. I can't prove it, because I don't have the broadcast, but it's possible that it's not the stream itself.

[jerryshadoe]

I'm aware of this, although thanx for mentioning it for those that don't know. I have used different decoders on this and they have all given me the same results. I need to free up some space on my cloud before I can upload the broadcast if you wanna crack at it. I've been meaning to do it, but just haven't had the time to decide what to dump and what to keep on there.

[Chewtobacca]

Sorry! I should have realized that you'd know.

Don't worry about the upload – just send if/when you're ready. I figured that you wouldn't want to upload the whole thing anyway, so I wasn't expecting anything. That said, I am curious to see what's going on with the video stream.

[jerryshadoe]

It's been a little while and I thought that I would update everyone on progress.

I have been really busy the last couple of weeks and we have had a couple of power outages again (last one lasting over half a day) which has slowed down the progress of the project. Plus, thanx to a tip from a great friend, I now have an extra-awesome video source for another project and had to make sure to download it before it disappeared. (will be posting new thread about this soon)

Anyway, back to topic... : There is some extensive damage to the HDTV source, in terms of the blended frames that I mentioned in one of my previous posts. Fortunately, like I also explained in a previous post, I was able to "recover"/"fix" most of these frames. I now have the "fixed" HDTV video source that I can use to align the DVD sources to. I have been in the process of aligning both, the 16x9 and 4x3 DVD footage, for both, the logo "patch" and the "extended" part of frame to produce a full 16x9 frame.

I have about 1/3 of both aligned in terms of the frames and all frames in terms of temporal alignment. Will continue to work on it but I don't think I'll have it ready in time for my b-day towards end of month due to the little vacation I'm taking with family around same time. Once I have the frames all aligned, I will make another "status update." At that time, I might also need help on color-matching but I'm getting ahead of myself

[jerryshadoe]

Ok, ok... so I haven't moved on this project much yet because I have been extremely busy with life... Also, for the next couple of weeks, won't be able to work on this, as I'm going on vacation in a couple days for my b-day and (shhh, don't tell my daughters, LOL) I'm also taking my kids to Disneyland

I will resume working on the project around the 29th-30th of this month though, so don't worry as it won't be much longer. This will end up being released side-by-side (as separate projects, of course, LOL) with a "surprise" that I have been working on recently that pushed the work back on this project, due to the fact that it involved A LOT LESS work, just long processing time...

A HUGE THANX to DoomBot (for helping contact the person who ripped the track and for sending it to me) and ALSO to BusterD (for capturing the audio track from his LD) as they have helped me acquire the LD PCM for this film
VERY HAPPY about this. A simple look at it, already showed me some differences (although subtle but there) in comparison to the 6.1 up-mix on the BD. For now, it's in it's "raw" form, ie. still at 44.1KHz instead of 48KHz (to make it BD compatible) and is unsynced, but this is not a problem. It's just awesome to have and I will definitely use it. Also, since this project is being timed with the 2DBD, I will post the synced LD PCM for others to use once I have it done (wait til end of month please) ;P

[jerryshadoe]

I know, I know, I'm multi-posting but it's my thread, LOL

Anyway, I haven't synced the LD PCM (already explained when I will in last post) but I did a comparison today on my surround system and WOW!!! There is a much wider dynamic range on the LD PCM and it sounds "warmer," kind of like comparing a CD capture to a Vinyl capture. Also, the LD PCM is "more lossless" than the lossless audio on the BD...

I hear some of you saying, "WHAT?!" LOL

Well, I did a spectral analysis of the 2ch Stereo Surround AC3 track included on the first R1 DVD, (the one with the non-anamorphic widescreen and full-screen editions on same disc) the TrueHD 5.1 mix on the BD and the LD PCM and what I discovered is rather shocking to me...

Here's the R1 DVD 2ch AC3:

[Image: CylVQPd.png]

Here's the BD TrueHD 5.1:

[Image: XkLGHWM.png]

and, here's the LD PCM:

[Image: yn3sEU3.png]

Once again, the LD audio is superior... Now I'm wondering if there are any other movies that have better LD PCM compared to the lossless tracks on BDs... Hmmmm

[PDB]

That sounds about right. That's why a lot of us here like syncing LD tracks to blu-rays, outside of trying to get closer to the original theatrical soundtracks. LD tracks just sound better in a lot (but certainly not all) occasions.

Part of that is a placebo effect since PCM tracks tend to be louder at the same listening levels on a receiver. Many people automatically equate louder with better. But even when volume is balanced between sources, a bunch of LD tracks still sound better then say an equivalent lossless track on a BD. The theory of why that is varies greatly..

One thought goes that many of LD's soundtracks were taken from something close to the original masters used for the theatrical soundtrack and not modified/re-mixed much. That means that whats on the LD can sometimes be the original far-field mix (outside of obviously conversion, Dolby changes, etc). Far-field mixes are going to be bit more dynamic and aggressive in order to fill a larger space/volume (read: theater vs a room in a home). Whereas the near-field mix most of us hear today at home is re-mixed to accommodate a small room by changing the dynamics accordingly.

And its not just the PCM tracks. Many people including myself appreciate the AC3 and DTS tracks of some LDs over their DVD or BD counterparts. First thing that comes to mind is the LD of Jurassic Park that contained the excellent DTS track. The later DTS on the DVD paled in comparison. And speaking of Top Gun, I have been wanting to hear this soundtrack for a while based off its reputation:

http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/21964/LV-1692-WS/Top-Gun

It is suppose to have an excellent AC-3 track made from the same master used to create the 70mm soundtrack.

The other thought was that some LD tracks were "sweetened" when LDs made the move from analog to digital PCM. Especially during the 90s. That way they sounded better to people making the move from VHS to LD.

[BusterD]

Good to hear the PCM was satisfactory.
The AC-3 on the JP LD I have (http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/25690/PILF-2284/Top-Gun) appears to be the same as the one you linked PDB, since the insert also mentions the 70mm 6-track. I don't currently have an RF Demodulator, but I can probably get one used fairly cheap, and then I can capture the AC-3 as well.