The Godfather Trilogy 4K UHD

[zoidberg]

Just out of curiosity what are the issues with the RAH restoration? I must confess I haven't watched the films since the first DVD release. I understand the DP was something of an alchemist and the first 2 had dye transfer print runs, so I am guessing that they were shot with the dye transfer look in mind (and any standard Eastman prints were of secondary importance).
The RAH comments on the UHD set were amusing though. I feel he was not speaking his mind as fully as he may have wanted

[captainsolo]

I may be a glutton for punishment. I found a cheap Blu-ray set of the new master on eBay and figured I’d try it too just in case. I’m wondering if that will negate some of the hdr issues.
It’s probably the Zoetrope people who did all the crazy processing and revisionism but then again it could be Paramount or both.

I still don’t know what the accurate color is. The old video masters were one way, the thx LDs/first DVDs were another, the 2008 BDs were redder than they were supposed to be, the 2007 Harris restoration claimed accuracy and now the 2022 has better tech specs but is all over the map in spite of having more neutral color overall.
And good grief that 5.1 remix with new effects is still atrocious. I don’t know how anyone can stand it.

Well for the curious here are my viewing notes I jotted down going along:

The Godfather UHD

Very generic menus
Dolby vision
New Coppola intro
Black screen for intro in complete darkness no modern studio logo

Opening scene lights from blinds too bright and some shots look devoid of grain with grain frozen halos Don in front of wall photo pointing to Buonasera

Opening wedding not timed as bright as 2008 but sort of close still slightly overexposed.
Frequently some bits look slightly rough or digital with some highlights too bright

Grain scrubbed on closeups of Kay with frozen grain
Frozen grain halo over tons head with waltz outside house
Some wobble on Don getting up 36:52

Fade outs and fades are weird like they hold or maybe it’s oled

Frozen grain around Sollozzo and Luca at bar. Aliasing and stairstepping in subtitles

55:40 line on Clemenza’s wife’s face
Then very soft hazy shot I think from stock footage of car under El train tracks-then shot of car driving through city also stock footage soft

Frozen grain above wheat in take the cannoli
1:04:33 digital artifacts around lights and lattice work. More artifacting everywhere along hallways
Frozen grain on shot of stairs where footsteps are heard by Michael
Swirling noise in hospital doors behind them on steps outside on first long shots
1:19:40 frozen grain around Clemenza explaining about taped gun to Michael
1:20:50 frozen grain around Sonny saying bye to Mike and Tom as well.
1:28:00 frozen grain around Solozzo when Michael comes back to the table
DNR and frozen ness when Sonny sees Connie in her apartment beaten
Frozen grain around Apollonia on honeymoon night
Maybe frozen grain when Vito is told of Sonny’s death
Frozen grain five families meeting
Frozen grain around Don you’re out Tom on couch
The Vegas signs do look weird in footage
Frozen grain around Moe Greene at table
Frozen grain around Michael telling Fredo off
2:28:15 small wobble on Vito about to tell Michael I didn’t want this for you
Frozen grain on Vito and Michael
Frozen grain or DNR on Kay asking Michael

End credits appear to stutter slightly as they scroll
Last credits fade out to vintage Paramount logo then zoetrope restoration credit

Some weirdness in shadows especially on faces noise and color issues look at Michael coming into see Carlo at the end.
Noisy in dark scenes like outside hospital
Occasional white speck or two
Small tic in mono as toms car pulls up at woltz 29:25
Mono tic 1:38:00 when they’re standing in fields and a second one when in town of Corleone
Mono tic when first bell of cemetery at funeral
Extra hiss in mono during baptism
Noise fan like sound when Michael confronting Carlo

[zoidberg]

Sounds like Zoetrope have struck again, applying the same steady hand as they did with Bram Stoker's Dracula (I'm still looking for the HDTV if anyone has it).

[The Aluminum Falcon]

For what it’s worth, I always thought Zoetrope did a shitty job restoring. Apocalypse Now looks a bit overbrightened and too red (had this confirmed by a film colleague who saw Apocalypse Now in London over four dozen times lol).

Cotton Club Encore is their only restoration that looks all right to me. The first Apocalypse Now BD looks fine colorwise but slightly too DNR’ed.

[dvdmike]

I like the 4k Dracula as Sony had more of a hand I feel. But the BD is garbage

[zoidberg]

I'm pretty certain Sony did the 4K in-house to walk back the criticism from the original Zoetrope blu ray, although there was still some arguing over the framing. I'll never forget they wheeled out RAH to defend the Zoetrope blu

[captainsolo]

Viewing notes on Part II: again these are just as I go along. Apologies for any phone notes auto correct typos.
Overall it’s much better than I but many small elements creep in throughout which is frustrating. There is definitely revisionism going on in the overall color and brightness and something just feels manipulated somehow. In spite of the noise and compression and other issues and the fact that the 2022 is using negative in better modern scans etc I find myself preferring the 2008 disc.

Godfather Part II UHD

Select language old school paramount menus at first

Generic menus has no auto resume boots straight back to main menu
Dolby vision grade
Lossy mono

Frozen grain in Paramount pictures white text?
First shot of Michael looks ok then next shot of kissing the hand looks DNRd and color drained
Frozen grain on title card?
Fade into Sicily shot weird fade and during roll out shows blob of color noise in center. Frozen grain for opening text on same shot.
Sharpening and noise and aliasing on ALL subtitles
Flash spot on right as guard walks in behind mother through gate
Shirt sleeve of Don very bright
Brown noise in shots of men asking for boy Vito
Major frozen noise in transition to Statue of Liberty and ship and frozen grain
Frozen grain halo around young Vito in front of window.
Color fringing in title to grandson at services -title text opticals may be redone
Some frozen grain on Jonny ola coming in?
Weird color on faces in shadows noisy.
Frozen grain on lamp when Michael comes in room to see kids photo
Frozen grain around Michael when putting Anthony to sleep
Noise in color in Michael’s face in shadows
Frozen grain and pixelization macroblocking in light fixture transition to Vito 43:33
Frozen grain when he picks up and puts down baby Sonny
49:23 street shot has noise and pixelated white day sky and some moving frozen grain around other people walking down street
Possible DNR on Vito’s wife at dinner table when he gets Gun bag from Clemenza?
52:15 frozen grain or just noise in background of shop
54:07 pixelization light bulbs
57:47 frozen noise pixelization in front of light coming through window curtains
1:01:46 Noise on screen door, rainbowing, macroblocking
Frozen pixelization on curtains behind Roth
1:06:30 light frozen grain halo around Michael maybe and Pentangali when he sits down.
1:10:50 Frozen grain pixelization behind them as they walk up
1:16:13 frozen grain on Kay and car interior
1:22:00 look mostly good on rooftop but Michael looks frozen grain somewhat DNR maybe. Then when cuts to Roth closeup sitting it’s DNRd on his face and frozen grain. Frozen grain and when they were talking alone.
1:26:00 inherent stutter shaking vibration on frame of car pulling up
1:34:24 frozen grain on shots of Michael when Roth is talking around Roth
1:36:20 frozen grain and noise on background dancers
1:41:44 weird bump king line effect on top of frame making chandeliers lights seem to flicker
Can’t tell it might be frozen grain on you broke my heart
1:46:35 black shape on frame when smashing machines
Noisy frozen grain on establishing stock footage Vegas shot
Noise on background window in hotel room
Noise on light bulb pixelization over baby Fredo in fade in
Some shots of Vito on roof and coming in door have sky super bright
Going down stairs some shaking
Possibly some tiny frozen grain and noise on killing of Fanucci
Fade is weekend
Intermission card is static frozen grain
2:07:25 Michael looking at toy car seems DNRd
Michael noisy face in shadows coming into house
Frozen grain and noise when Michael talking to Mama Corleone
Noisy transition. Noise and DNR and frozen on shot with fruit merchant
Windows blown out 2:14:05
2:24:28 noise and pixelization on Michael’s hand on table in hearing.
Weird bit where the sound sounds almost like a remix when Michael gets up from table then back to mono
2:28:20 sound seems to almost cut out for a second?
Light frozen grain halos around Michael and Fredl. Some mono tics and or dropouts during Fredo’s explosion.
2:33:00 some footage of Pentangelli suddenly looks orangish and like another source then back to other
Noise in background of hotel Washington
Frozen grain on Kay in hotel room and DNR
DNR on Michael’s face sitting on couch
Frozen grain on kids outside
2:43:00 some noise on Corleone station sign TONS of frozen grain in all of plume of train smoke
Frozen grain around people at family table in Sicily
2:45:45 tic in music
Frozen grain clonking glasses in wine cellar
Frozen grain rooftop guard
2:47:22 frozen noise macroblocking background through scene
Noise behind Tom and fredo In window
Noise behind Connie on chair confessing to Michael. DNR on her face with a frozen halo lightly
Slight stop in mono when Tom looking at Fredo teaching Anthony fishing pole
Weird noisiness in killing Roth discussion scene and color on faces frozen grain halos on faces
3:01:40 very DNR on shot of Tom and Frankie smoking cigars looks almost like degrained video
They walk along and get buzzing light noise on mono then stop and Tom’s coat is covered in noise
3:04:30 frozen grain Connie when she comes in door
3:06:10 frozen grain and pixelization behind Kay on cab driver in doorway
Water surface is super bright when Al taking Fredo
Al and Fredo in boat establishing shot looks a bit weird-sun is very bright
Noise on window with Michael watching
Noise on right lamp as Michael sits down in dark empty office
Super DNR in flashback on some shots especially when Carlo introduced to Connie
Fade in on end credits seems a little weird
Some slight noise in music
End credits have that stuttering look to them
Vintage paramount golf western logo is soft
Then static text credit for new restoration

Somehow looks weird noisy grain throughout that seems harsh and then DNR spots. Bright light spots in places.
Some spots and elements seem way too bright
Occasional speck or tiny speck sorta small mark

[The Aluminum Falcon]

Thanks for the breakdown @captainsolo . It's truly horrendous what's been done to The Godfather. Avoided this latest 4K like the plague and your observations suggest that was the right call.

So many weird little changes.

[captainsolo]

If we could get out hands on the raw negative scans they show in the “restoration” clips we could do it all ourselves without any tomfoolery. That’s what really kills me. Everyone else who has claimed it is great will call us nuts because the new scans and tech allowed to pull more detail out of the damaged negatives. They surpassed the 2007 work without any of its attention to being as accurate as possible and while using it as their foundation.

[Stamper]

I agree, it's just the 2007 version done better. It's still not accurate to the original prints. The crazy thing is, this was displayed in 2007 when they exposed captures of the negative of the restaurant killing. The negs was bathed in blue light, and they removed it, but forgot it in the last exterior shot. The whole project was killed right there.