Film logo preservation and talk thread

[tim_p]

Another useful bump, this time it's relates to United Artists yet again.

I discovered that the recent German Capelight 4k UHD and BD of 1975's Rollerball not only uses a brand new 4k restoration in HDR and SDR flavors, but also restores a rarely seen variant of the United Artists Transamerica T logo in 4k! (strangely enough, the 5.1 mixes and German mono had the jingle from the 1990s Marble UA logo while it's silent on the English Mono and Stereo tracks)



I've heard this variant was not only used on other 1973-1975 UA films intermittently with their other logos, but first appeared on 1968's The Thomas Crowne Affair which would make it the first known version of the Transamerica T. Kino's recent Thomas Crowne BD is a 4k restoration, but strangely uses the 1982 Turning UA logo instead of this one.

Ah, Transamerica Blue T flower - my favourite. Thanks for all the updates Knight, this is a wonderful thread. That's disappointing about Thomas Crowne. I'll be picking up a multi-region bd player soon and Crowne will be a purchase but now I'm a tad gutted that Kino messed up with the opening logo. Still got a handful of off-air Bond recordings on VHS simply because the masters ITV were using in the '90s had their original logos intact. Diamonds are Forever with the Blue T - beautiful..!

[pipefan413]

@narth has been working on a really nice digital recreation of the old Warner logo for a THE SHINING project he's done/doing and because I'm a pedantic nightmare human I couldn't resist chipping in by trying to offer some scanned-off-film alternatives to using a recreation...

Here's one that was framed as 1.66:1 and had really horrid overcranked luminance:



Here it is after reframing to 1.85:1 (using both a 35 mm scan and another 1.85:1 frame version of the logo as reference to ensure I wasn't over-cropping) and adjusting the luminance so it doesn't look ridiculous:




For comparison, here's the version that previously appeared in TAF's excellent THE EXORCIST theatrical restoration project, courtesy of @jonno:



... and a frame scanned from an actual 35 mm print of THE SHINING:



The version I've used here differs in one significant way from the one that TAF used for THE EXORCIST: it doesn't have a fade out at the end. Instead, it cuts straight to black. This means it's shorter, as it doesn't hold then cut to black where the other version fades out, it just cuts before it fades. I would have assumed that this was incorrect except that it was sourced from another film by the same director as THE SHINING and lasts precisely the same number of frames as the replacement logo that appears in home video releases of THE SHINING, which has me wondering if maybe this "smash to black" version was what originally appeared on both films. That said, I wouldn't be remotely surprised if this turns out not to be the case; it would just be a rather interesting coincidence, since it's literally frame-for-frame accuracy I'm talking about here.

[SpaceBlackKnight]

The cut to black sounds like a splice error on the particular 35mm print being scanned. The 1999 Warner DVD has the complete Saul Bass logo fading to black, as well as this YT video which is said to be looks like is sourced from a HDTV airing or Blu-Ray of the International Cut https://youtu.be/oupK2mBwYa4

The other film directed by Stanley Kubrick, Barry Lyndon, had the logo cut to the opening credits. As does another 1975 Warner Bros film, Doc Savage: The Man of Bronze, which had it recently restored to the Warner Archive Blu after being notoriously plastered by the CGI shield on the WEB-DLs.

[pipefan413]

The cut to black sounds like a splice error on the particular 35mm print being scanned. The 1999 Warner DVD has the complete Saul Bass logo fading to black, as well as this YT video which is said to be looks like is sourced from a HDTV airing or Blu-Ray of the International Cut https://youtu.be/oupK2mBwYa4

The other film directed by Stanley Kubrick, Barry Lyndon, had the logo cut to the opening credits. As does another 1975 Warner Bros film, Doc Savage: The Man of Bronze, which had it recently restored to the Warner Archive Blu after being notoriously plastered by the CGI shield on the WEB-DLs.

The 1.66:1 logo that was adjusted to 1.85:1 and luma corrected above is the one from Barry Lyndon, that's what I was referring to: hard cut to black, then we get Kubrick's credit and so on.

Interesting that there's an HDTV recording with the logo intact, that's rather frustrating but maybe promising if it's floating around somewhere and could be used as a source for just the logo. Ta for that!

I had a suspicion the logo might be intact on the older DVD but I couldn't check that because I no longer have an older DVD, just a mid-2000s one and two Blu-ray Disc versions (in the UK we got the shorter cut, which I thought I preferred until I watched it recently and decided it gets going way too quickly which completely screws up my ability to buy into the downward spiral, since it seems to basically just happen out of nowhere at the typewriter tantrum).

[pipefan413]

Found another candidate which turned out to be absolutely bloody perfect, so I've used that instead. 1.78:1 (so can be matted down to 1.85:1 with correct cropping), retains the fade out unlike the Barry Lyndon version (which I believe does the hard cut intentionally to sync with the music), and doesn't have massively inaccurate/horrid colour. Also doesn't need rescaled like Barry Lyndon one so won't take a quality hit from upscaling.



I've aligned the original Saul Bass logo from THE SATANIC RITES OF DRACULA to the replacement WB shield logo at the start of THE SHINING Blu-ray so that they fade out at the exact same time (the fade out even occurs over the same number of frames, probably not coincidentally). There weren't quite enough frames of black at the end of the Saul Bass logo before it started fading into the start of THE SATANIC RITES OF DRACULA (that makes sense, since THE SHINING is a hard cut rather than a fade in), so what I did was the following:

first 42 frames from THE SHINING Blu-ray (just enough black frames to align the logos)
+
first 287 frames from THE SATANIC RITES OF DRACULA Blu-ray (cuts before fade in to start of film)
+
last 8 frames of black from THE SHINING Blu-ray before hard cut to first frame of the actual film
=
337 frames (same number preceding first frame of film on THE SHINING Blu-ray Disc)

I intentionally sampled the extra black from THE SHINING to avoid using solid black because solid black with no grain or compression noise might be noticeable to the most eagle-eyed viewers so I thought it better to use actual scanned and encoded black instead (and it seemed wrong to loop the same black frames from THE SATANIC RITES OF DRACULA, especially for as many as 50 frames in total).

Result:

Password is SatanicBass

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Fantastic work Pipefan! I found it odd Warner still used the 90s shield with the 4k Shining resto, when most of their other recent 2/4k remasters released through the Archives and by the likes of Criterion and Shout have been restoring other Warner logos that were previously pasted over on older HD copies.

I nearly forgot about Satanic Rites of Dracula having the Big W intact as I also own the Warner Archive Blu, so good catch there. Speaking of that movie, I also forgot I had a BD of the US version titled Count Dracula and His Vampire Bride, released by a firm called Snappy Video before Warner put out their Blu. https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Count-Dra...ay/195709/

Only 60 copies were made before it got pulled due to Warner claiming a US copyright (they only ever released it in the UK and Europe, while Warner at the time of the Exorcist boom sold off US distribution rights to a now-defunct distributor called Dynamite Releasing). It used rather faded and battered 35mm print of the US Count Dracula and His Vampire Bride version and has the strangest opening I've ever saw.

It starts off with a Big W logo that looks like it was pasted on from a ripped and upscaled DVD source and cropped from a scope ratio:



Followed by the Dynamite Releasing logo that is HD and is part of the 35mm print Snappy Video used:

[pipefan413]

Fantastic work Pipefan! I found it odd Warner still used the 90s shield with the 4k Shining resto, when most of their other recent 2/4k remasters released through the Archives and by the likes of Criterion and Shout have been restoring other Warner logos that were previously pasted over on older HD copies.

I nearly forgot about Satanic Rites of Dracula having the Big W intact as I also own the Warner Archive Blu, so good catch there. Speaking of that movie, I also forgot I had a BD of the US version titled Count Dracula and His Vampire Bride, released by a firm called Snappy Video before Warner put out their Blu. https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Count-Dra...ay/195709/

Only 60 copies were made before it got pulled due to Warner claiming a US copyright (they only ever released it in the UK and Europe, while Warner at the time of the Exorcist boom sold off US distribution rights to a now-defunct distributor called Dynamite Releasing). It used rather faded and battered 35mm print of the US Count Dracula and His Vampire Bride, and has the strangest opening I've ever saw.

It starts off with a Big W logo that looks like it was pasted on from ripped and upscaled DVD source and cropped from a scope ratio:



Followed by the Dynamite Releasing logo that is HD and is part of the 35mm print Snappy Video used

I think you're exactly right, because the warping of the shape of the logo is exactly the same as ENTER THE DRAGON (anamorphic). Hahah oh dear.

[bendermac]

Here is an old version of the Coralco logo. Quality isn't the best. Idk if there is a better version. But might be useful regardless

https://mega.nz/file/u8szQCqR#0Be6ZoAiN1...yFHQ7ZbYdM

[SpaceBlackKnight]

Here is an old version of the Coralco logo. Quality isn't the best. Idk if there is a better version. But might be useful regardless

https://mega.nz/file/u8szQCqR#0Be6ZoAiN1...yFHQ7ZbYdM

Thanks for that one! I presume it comes off a Laserdisc of Extreme Prejudice? I know the US 4:3 Artisan DVD (also with this same logo) is pretty ratty looking and probably uses the same master as whatever LD it was culled from. Apparently, other copies of this movie (including some 720p 25fps rip of what seems to be the Scandinavian Blu) have the TriStar logo as they were the US distributors, while Carolcos was seen on overseas releases.

I'm aware of a better quality HD version of this Carolco logo showing up on a International trailer for Extreme Prejudice. This trailer is presumably on the German Blu, though I'm not entirely sure if it's proper HD from a 35mm element or some janky 576i upscale?

[pipefan413]

Here's a really big one for me and it's one that absolutely infuriates me every time I remember it... TOY STORY.

Y'know the iconic 3D animated version of the Disney castle logo they created specifically to go with the fact that TOY STORY was the first fully 3D computer animated film ever made? That was so key to the film that they made it part of the film's score, giving it an equally iconic (and now intensely nostalgic) orchestral soundtrack, which on the CD soundtrack is the beginning of "Andy's Birthday"? Yeah, they butchered it on the Blu-ray for no good reason.

How it should look (aside from VHS 4:3 framing):



But here's how it actually does look, ever since the "Special Edition" (which is the first and only version available on Blu-ray):



Not only did they cut the logo, they also cut the music even though it was part of the scene, and it just... it just does a hard cut in the middle of a piece of orchestration, after they're clear of the frames containing the old logo. I can't even begin to make you understand just how reprehensible this is from my perspective. I won't rant, I'll just say that I need to fix it.

The only HD source lead I have so far is having just noticed that A BUG'S LIFE still has the correct logo at the start (so why change it on TOY STORY, the film it was actually created specifically for?! baaaaahhhh...) but of course it doesn't have the fade where the Disney castle logo moves away from the "camera", there's a dissolve to Andy's bedroom wallpaper (cloudy sky) and the camera continues moving backwards away from the wall for a bit before panning down into the first scene. So if I were to use the A BUG'S LIFE logo, I'd still have a fairly tricky chunk of dissolving frames to reconstruct. It isn't just the dissolve, it's the fact the camera's moving as well. So how do I do that?

Well, I have several DVD copies of TOY STORY that I could upscale for just a few frames, but I suspect that'd be noticeably different from the neighbouring frames and therefore extremely jarring and unpleasant. So I'm wondering if there's maybe some non-disc HD copy of the film that has the logo intact, somewhere. Alternatively, this is probably a very slim chance, but does anybody have the 4K/UHD Blu-ray? I don't have a 4K capable display and for this reason and others have extremely little interest in buying UHDs but if this actually has the right logo, I might try sourcing only those frames and colour correcting them to the Blu-ray (wallpaper) and/or A BUG'S LIFE Disney castle logo, then stitching them in where they should be.

If it proves too awkward to do then I'll most likely just end up slowing down the PAL DVD and watching the film that way. I have every LaserDisc copy of the film ever released, I think, (EDIT: No, actually I only considered buying the JP one but then didn't, although alinskey has that anyway) so I'm also likely to do some kind of LD transfer version (maybe giving something like AutoOverlay a whirl, and/or trying TooT on it), but that'd be far from looking like native 1080p; I guess I could investigate Topaz but I haven't given that any real consideration thus far. However, the LDs are - I think - the last transfers done from film sources, with the DVDs being straight from digital to digital. I'm about to have a look at the very first UK DVD once I finish doing something else, but I don't think it's from 35 mm.