[In progress] True Lies - open matte, film regraded

[CSchmidlapp]

I won't believe it until I attend to an actual 35mm screening myself. In my book, the whole Switzerland opening scene cannot be that dark, especially inside the manor, the cocktail party, the ballroom where they tango. The outside in the snow, fine. It's night, it helps the stealth intrusion in the property, that's all right. Nevertheless, the revealing shot specifically designed for Arnie to turn his head and face the camera for audience purposes, I can't believe it's so dark by Cameron's design. I know that film is darker than video, for sure, but that's extreme. This is True Lies, not a fantasy/horror movie like The Fog, which is very much darker on 35mm than the Blu-ray, by the way.

I'm no authority on True Lies but I think the opening is indeed this dark on the 35mm release print.
I admit it seems odd, but the 35mm scan does not lie.

[Stamper]

Nonetheless it looks bad! I'm with Beber here, you need to adjust it. 35mm prints reels can be either badly scanned, or badly done which is the case here as the rest of the film looks fine. Also you intensified the clipped whites, it's a nono. You can't destroy this problematic transfer further, the goal is to improve it.

[deleted user]

I do agree about the clipped whites, they're not too pretty. Otherwise I don't mind the darkness.

[Farstarbuck]

I’ve been here all along and I read the discussion about the 35mm print I just didn’t think it would end up looking so dark. On video release okay sure it’s a little brighter than theatre but this isn’t a little darker it’s a lot. I seen this in the theatre twice and I have watched it for hundreds of hours afterwards. The lighting in this movie is not meant to be that tone.

[spoRv]

I watched my own version 'til the end, and to me it's fine as is - yes, that shot is quite dark, but, apart that (to me not a huge problem), I don't see other problematic scenes; also clipped whites are never distracting, and found sporadically...

As that lossless "master" is ready, I can always prepare a small test version, so anyone interested could check if it's good enough... opinions?

[Beber]

Sure, I'm interested in a test video. Make it 1080p so I can test my subs onto it.

So, did you manage to erase the burnt-in subtitles, by the way?

[Farstarbuck]

I can look it over

[spoRv]

Test version is uploaded; if someone is interested, just drop me a PM!

[Valeyard]

I’ve been here all along and I read the discussion about the 35mm print I just didn’t think it would end up looking so dark. On video release okay sure it’s a little brighter than theatre but this isn’t a little darker it’s a lot. I seen this in the theatre twice and I have watched it for hundreds of hours afterwards. The lighting in this movie is not meant to be that tone.

I heard from the owner of the print that was scanned and he confirmed that the print is as dark as the 35mm scan.

There is also an interesting article I read on a scanner's website, notice the last line in the quote below:

Expose hidden detail with multi-flash HDR scanning

Gamma Ray Digital is now offering optional multi-flash High Dynamic Range film scanning for all gauges from 8mm through 35mm. HDR scanning works by shooting multiple images of the same frame at different exposure levels, in order to draw out shadow detail (in positive film) or prevent clipping in highlights (in negative film).

We've upgraded our Lasergraphics scanner to support HDR, and the results are outstanding. But don't just take our word for it, see for yourself:



Is HDR for me?

If you're working with camera original film, you should seriously consider it. If you're working with print film, then the answer is probably no - by the time the film has been printed, lost shadow and highlight detail is usually permanent.

As you can see from that article quality loss in the shadow area of print films is quite normal. As I mentioned in the other thread, about a month ago I saw a film that looked "worse"/less detail in the shadows compared to True Lies in the cinema.

[spoRv]

I can say that the "darker than dark" shot, in my regrade, is confined to that single scene - and, even if you could not see Arnold's face perfectly, you can recognize him, where in the film scan is even darker; other scenes are dark, but they fit well IMHO, and the overall presentation is gorgeous - don't take it for granted, ask for the "workprint"!