Batman 1989 4K

[weegee2392]

So, I did a phase-reversed overlay of the TrueHD as well as the DVD DTS and at the point where I overlayed them, they cancel each other out pretty well, so I'm guessing they might actually be the same. Haven't yet done side-by-side listening tests tho. Also interesting, they drift apart over the runtime a bit, but seem to stay close enough to not be out of sync. And in some places in the beginning where they cancel each other out rather well, sometimes for a short moment the cancellation stops and then it goes on, kind of strange.

Well if they're the same mix, it sounds better on dvd then it does on Blu-Ray and it's goes newer releases can be in a few ways inferior to older ones.

[Stamper]

Apparently there was a DTS release of the original mix on DVD?

Same track as the early 1997 DVD but in DTS?

See post below

https://originaltrilogy.com/topic/Batman...n/id/68421

[Chris Knight]

it gets more and more complicated...

So the Ld track 2.0 mix would be the same track as the dolby digital 5.1 1997 dvd, and the 2005 dts dvd????

how can we be sure?
by comparing the dynamic range maybe?

So far these are all the originals mix available i can count:

2.0 from LD (considered to be the best one)
5.1 Dolby digital from 1997 dvd (should be the same as the LD,but encode in 5.1 and lossy)
5.1 Dts track from 2005 SE dvd (new mix or the same than the 1997 dolby???)
5.1 Dolby digital from 2005 SE dvd
5.1 Dolby True Hd from 2009 Bluray
2.0 from Itunes (before they replace it with the new atmos one)

so how can we tell them apart?

[deleted user]

There are A/B testing tools that let you switch between synced tracks on the fly. While they aren't technically made for this purpose, I think you could use them for comparing two tracks by ear. Any obvious differences should become more apparent this way, similar to how those screenshot comparison sites make it easier to spot differences than just posting two images side-by-side.

[Chris Knight]

good idea!
in wich softwares  do you find that kind of tool? audacity maybe?

Sadly i don't have all those tracks, i was just listing what i know exists, but i'll give it a try as soon as i'll be able too.
But don't know if i can trust my hears to the point i'll be able to confirm if two tracks are from the same mix..
Would take several persons to test them, and then cross the results...

[deleted user]

Don't remember which software I used, but it was easy enough to find something on Google.

[deleted user]

Curious, do you guys know about any "special" audio tracks for Batman? Like score-only or commentaries? The UHD has a director's commentary (not sure if it's a new one or an old one), but was wondering if more tracks like that exist.

[weegee2392]

Curious, do you guys know about any "special" audio tracks for Batman? Like score-only or commentaries? The UHD has a director's commentary (not sure if it's a new one or an old one), but was wondering if more tracks like that exist.

It's probably an old commentary. (The director's commentary I've ment.)

[bronan]

I've synced bendermac's capture of the JP laserdisc to the UHD as well. It wasn't too hard, there were just a few frame differences from the US so it was more or less a swap out of the files and re-export. Here is a comparison of the US and JP discs:

US / JP

[deleted user]

Okay, interesting (kinda) news.

I took a small chunk from the beginning of both LD tracks, normalized that chunk, cut away one single sample from the Japan LD's beginning for a better sync and then subtracted both tracks. To my surprise, there was a clearly visible and also audible waveform left. However listening to it revealed that whatever differences there are between the tracks, they must be pretty constant, because there was no fluctuation of any kind in how the difference signal sounded.

So I think, without any doubt, the two are the same master.

But, I wanted to find out why I was still getting a visible waveform, so I fiddled with spectral views a little bit and they looked pretty much identical, save for what I think must be dithering noise; the JP LD seems to have the tiniest amount of more noise in the high frequencies, whereas the US LD seems to have a bit more in the mids. Since this observation was so very minimal, I concluded that it must simply be slightly different noise shaping parameters for the dithering that caused this.

But I was also seeing some more noticable changes in the low frequencies, so I chose a strong logarithm that shows the low frequencies in more detail and I found that the US LD seems to, for some reason, "smear" under 20 Hz and also have some kind of constant undefined ultra low frequency hum that likely isn't audible, whereas the JP LD seems to have nicely defined low frequencies throughout.

I'm guessing they might have just run some kind of anti-rumble filter on the US LD that removes anything below 20 Hz.

Very likely this doesn't affect perceptible audio quality in any way, but explains why subtracting the waveforms didn't work properly.

Nevertheless I'd argue that this objectively makes the JP LD the superior, more "raw" track that may even theoretically sound better in some subtle subconscious way because EQing/highpassing with most EQs likely introdudes phase distortions, which might also explain why subtracting the tracks results in a track that still appears to have a rather full frequency range - phase distortions would prohibit a proper cancellation of all frequencies. However I have yet to do an A/B side-by-side test to see if there's actually any perceivable difference; I'm guessing there isn't. Still might be the better choice for any projects that aim to edit the audio or upmix it, as it's arguably a more faithful "raw" source. Thoughts?

You can see it best in a screenshot comparison: http://www.framecompare.com/screenshotco...n/2F11NNNU

US LD:


JP LD: