[versions] Vintage Clint Eastwood films original audio preservation

[Stamper]

Updated the first post with more research.

You can now have a very clear view of the evolution of Clint early film mixes up until the end of the LD golden era.

[BDgeek]

Thanks a lo Stamper! Great work!

[Stamper]

Just did some update including all the Universal titles. All I need to do next is list the delays in ms between the editions.

On other info, it looks to me that Where Eagles Dare 6 tracks 70mm showings, were actually 3x2 stereo channels ie the information was stereo and identical in all six speakers. That's what the advert listed here suggest:

https://www.in70mm.com/library/engagemen.../index.htm



There's more info here from the Cinema Retro feature:

https://www.in70mm.com/news/2009/where_e.../index.htm

So I think maybe one can recreate the 4 tracks mix, simply by using the LD stereo and duplicating the stereo in the surrounds channels. Also the same for the 6 tracks mix, but that means it will only work for people with 6.1 or more set-ups.

[Stamper]

First post updated now will all the Universal films delay between the editions and the new versions listed.

Work still going on with the Warner section.

[mitkrod]

Thanks so much for all this detective work, Stamper! With the Warners do we know for sure if Honkytonk Man, Bird etc. are the original mixes on the Amazon DLs? Or are they potentially downmixes of the DVD 5.1s? I was thinking of doing a close comparison of the two sources

[zoidberg]

Literally both articles you referenced mention the discrete multichannel mix for Where Eagles Dare

[Stamper]

I think they are original mixes, as the folded down 5.1 versions sounds different.

The articles mentions "6-track magnetic stereophonic sound" and "discrete six-channel stereophonic sound."

Does discrete means each channel is different from the others? or does it mean that the mix is stereo, spread over 6 channels, thus identical stereo sound on left and right multiplied by three set ups? That's what "stereophonic sound" means to me. I could be wrong of course.

[zoidberg]

Yes discrete means each channel is independent of the other as opposed to a matrixed system like Dolby Stereo SVA optical where 4 channels are folded into 2 and extracted upon playback.
Originally 6-track mag was conceived as 5 front channels and 1 surround however the system evolved into 3 front channels, 2 surround channels (either split or mono) and the subwoofer (baby boom) channel. This carried over into the digital age with CDS, AC-3 and DTS using the same arrangement.
From reading the article Where Eagles Dare had a 4-track mix (L-C-R-S) prepared for 70mm and 35mm mag stripe prints (35mm mag is 4-track). Rather than make a dedicated 70mm 6-track mix the 35mm 4-track was carried over, leaving the LC/RC tracks muted. As this was before Dolby Stereo was introduced magnetic sound was the only way to present stereo sound in cinemas, the standard anamorphic 35mm optical prints were mono. Mag striping was a fairly involved and expensive process with a fair amount of wasted prints from incorrect application, so it was dropped as soon as an alternative came about.

[Stamper]

I have a feeling the stereo foreign dub tracks on the DVD and Blu-ray are made from the 5.1 remix. Someone with an old VHS tape of the french dub in mono will check out for any difference.

[captainsolo]

WED has a surprisingly good mix for the era if a bit canned in places as was common for most films. It was a blowup from MGM at the time and not a super true 70mm production. Most mixes were done 4 track LCRS as a master and then had the extra LC and RC screen channels in the five front channels of 70mm merely for ambiance as they were moving away from directional dialogue a bit already, the five speaker across the screen 70mm system and 4 track magnetic was a viable competitor for a while in standard 35mm. So it made sense to work more in 4 track for a time.

The LD is 2.0 matrix surround and is only fully engaging in the main action sequences. Otherwise like most films of the time it's only ambiance that pulls into the rears or music cues. The 5.1 on the DVD/BD is less impactful but seems to be the same mix overall.
On the flipside the film it is usually paired with, Kelly's Heroes, has a wimpy and pitiful original mix most of the time.