[Canceled] Terminator 2 (Theatrical Cut) (35 Project #4)

[spoRv]

OK, just finished to watch.

Opinion? Well... it's perfect! Flawless! No problems at all!

Even if I don't like too much blue blanket, this time it was used wisely, and never too pushed; the colors, which seems almost "forced" and unnatural in some of the previous, static images comparisons, flows well in motion and, apart two shots (read about them after) they are always spot on. And, in sunlight scenes, colors are natural as they are supposed to be. Can't remember the colors of T2 when I last watched it few years ago, but if someone would argue this ones are wrong, I can surely say that's not the case. At the end, don't know how much closer to the theatrical presentation this color grading is, but I would elect this edition as the ultimate one. Period.

The two shots that I was talking about are the first inside Cyberdine, where Dyson examines the chip - too magenta, and the "one foot", where the terminator's face contour is again too magenta, while John's seems right. But maybe it's just my tastes, the fact that I watched the movie not only for fun, but to examinate the colors closely, or that I must find something wrong even if it's not true... or, perhaps, just because I'm a bit envious for not having done it myself!

Good job PDB, well done!

[PDB]

Well thanks spoRv. That made my day after what was an incredibly terrible day. Very kind words.

So about the two scenes. I going to look at them but I want to make sure I know exactly where they are.

The first is the scene at Cyberdyne with Dyson is between the Sarah Conner integration scenes at the mental ward? Early in the movie, rigth?

The other is after John calls home right? When he and the Terminator are still outside the phone booth and those 2 guys come to rescue John, right?

[Stamper]

The one foot scene was all blue in the theaters.

[spoRv]

Yep, correct; if you need the exact time let me know.

About test file: quality is great for such relatively low bitrate! Maybe you could also release an AVCHD on DVD-5!

Do you plan to add an Italian subs track, too?

[Stamper]

OK currently watching it. All the exterior shots in daylight look wrong to me. They are washed out. Some moments like the corridor shoot out are too blue they look like a shifted print. Also the biker scene is not blue enough. Watch the making of included in the DVD bonuses to see how the color was. You're working from a source that is already altered so it might be a real problem.

Overall it looks like a film print, but they are too many parts that look shifted with the colors gone wrong. The arrival of Terminator however looks ok. The bike jump it looks like an 80's bad video scan, it was never bleached which is how your daylight scenes look.

Use the making of for your clog corrections, it might be of great help even if it's in SD

[MrBrown]

I just watched it.
Too bad, I never saw it theatrically, but I was playing an old DVD (japanese PIBF-1001) in sync on a second screen, to see the actual difference.
Overall it is a realy well done job. no technical problems itself.

But it seemed as if there are often details lost, either in bright (like the shot when John and his friend are riding on johns motorbike, and you see their faces close up) or in dark areas (uniforms of cops and security seem to loose details).
But overall it was very interesting to watch, I think the complete movie seemed lesser washed out than the DVD, also everything was lesser greenish.

[PDB]

Ok got some time now that family time is over.

I just watched it.
Too bad, I never saw it theatrically, but I was playing an old DVD (japanese PIBF-1001) in sync on a second screen, to see the actual difference.
Overall it is a realy well done job. no technical problems itself.

But it seemed as if there are often details lost, either in bright (like the shot when John and his friend are riding on johns motorbike, and you see their faces close up) or in dark areas (uniforms of cops and security seem to loose details).
But overall it was very interesting to watch, I think the complete movie seemed lesser washed out than the DVD, also everything was lesser greenish.

I was wondering if someone would notice that. Those scenes are very blown out in the BD also:

BD/Regrade


I did try to start fixing those shots with curves and gamma:


but then just kept it to the BD. I often kept the same saturation and gamma, etc as the BD. As for the uniforms thats from matching the contrast to a 35mm shots where they lose a lot of info in the blacks but I can mess with that.

OK currently watching it. All the exterior shots in daylight look wrong to me. They are washed out. Some moments like the corridor shoot out are too blue they look like a shifted print. Also the biker scene is not blue enough. Watch the making of included in the DVD bonuses to see how the color was. You're working from a source that is already altered so it might be a real problem.

Overall it looks like a film print, but they are too many parts that look shifted with the colors gone wrong. The arrival of Terminator however looks ok. The bike jump it looks like an 80's bad video scan, it was never bleached which is how your daylight scenes look.

Use the making of for your clog corrections, it might be of great help even if it's in SD

Respectfully Stamper I disagree with most of this. This project is far from perfect, without a 35mm print there is no way to know how close I got. Having said that there are a couple things I 'd like to point out:

1. I'm not sure why you are saying the exterior day shots are washed out. I think they maintained a pretty wide range of colors despite having shift from the warm (yellow) to cool (blue):

BD/Regrade


I don't know T2 seems like a more "cool" movie to me, especially with what we know about Cameron.

2. The blue mall/arcade scene/hallway (lets call this the mall for short) and the biker bar are both what attracted me to the project in the first place. The idea that the BD doesn't have those scenes in blue and that I could fix it was very attractive. Now there are a lot of 35mm shots showing a blue tint at the mall:



But I hear you saying that maybe the lpp was faded, unlikely but I'll buy it. More likely if there is an color error, its with the pictures being taken (or scanned) but the telecine and super 8 show blue too (biased more towards purple)



and even the muse LD show it from the posting on LDDB (a bit with LD levels)



I just leaned towards the 35mm in this case since that was the theme.

BD/Regrade


As for the Biker bar its odd to argue that its too blue in on the one hand and not enough on the other. That one shot of the biker and cigar is not as blue because it was balanced out over the 15 other pics of that scene and the surrounding ones.

3. If we are talking the same making of T2, I already rejected that as a source long ago per a conversation on the OT, the shots from the movie are messy NTSC at best. But lets say I did use, well it shows all the day exterior shots looking like my regrade ("the washed-out") and not the warm blanket yellow of the BD:



Hell the hospital fight looks like my regrade. Its just that one shot of the biker/t-800 and the hallway shots:



so instead of my blue tint it now has a green tint, which doesn't help either way.


The key theme here is that all these sources I am using show blue and purple for everything. Day/night/int/ext. Could I be wrong, sure but I'm going off the best info I have at the moment. More info is a v2.0

[Stamper]

Yeah, the problem is you are working from an already altered source, and not the best one (alas there's none better!)

Not every shot you posted is wrong, but for example the T-1000 with the two girls, they are pale like they are dead.

There are tons of shot looking wrong that way all along. Now, generally, the tone is right, it looks like film, but those shots were never this pale. Remember I saw it 15 times in the cinemas, in 70mm etc. I know how it looks. The Muse isn't reference either it's bad transfer lol.

Corridor scene in the mall, the T-1000 always had OK skintones, he was never blue. The scans of the 35mm are more balanced than you Clog there, but that's because it's based on a negative or IP. I think there should be a middle ground in those "pale" shots, where you keep them close to the BD, only with added contrast and filmic grain  as you have done.

Regarding the making of it's loaded of outtakes as it's from the workprint, and it's not consistent. However I promise you, the blue in the biker bar is exactly how it was in the cinema, probably because by the time they edited the making of, it was the first scene completed since it's at the beginning. The entire scene was recolored/timed for LD on so that people could see what's going on on their CRT, so the entire scene would need to be reshifted to go back to what it was. Here you're middway there, as you work from the Blu-ray obviously.

But I need to add, you totally nailed the nightscenes like the arrivals etc.

EDIT : I need to add, you totally deleted the sun in the canal chase. The sun tones in the Blu-ray were always there in the theaters, that scene is close to what it's originaly was. Not cold looking.

EDIT 2: I get what you mean by the blue cold tone in the corridor, the problem is that even the faces are bluish now.

[MrBrown]

Just one Question:
Which Color Temperature does the normal 35mm and 70mm lightbulb in a projector have?
Because, maybe that is the point: That the scans of the prints look more blue than the projected image itself, if the lightbulb hase somebit warmer color than true white light...
Just a guess, and I really would love to get proven wrong, but I did not find anything on that topic in a quick search.

@PDB: Yeah, I feared that the original BD was as blown out, but I never watched the movie checking each scene visualy, instead of concentration on the story. So it was the first time I really noticed.

[Stamper]

For some reason, most old transfers of Terminator films are blown out on DVD. It was for Terminator anamophic, T2 etc.

In fact the older 4/3 formated Image DVD for Terminator, looked better than the anamorphic version, with no clipped whites. Watch for example the moment the T-800 spins his bike to give chase, the sign of the Hotel is readable on the Image disc, it's unreadable on the anamorphic from MGM, and still unreadable in the 4K remaster.