What might also be interesting - taking the Full Screen version by jerryshadoe (I saw a post on OT, that's all) and regrading that to the Workprint. No idea what to do about the logo tho.

I prefer the high contrast print look myself. Notice how on the "remaster" of the DVD (now on Blu-ray) they added contrast, which the original DVD is seriously lacking.

I just took another look at the raw 35mm v2.0 and I still don't like it. It looks wrong to me in many places. It has the right colors in general, maybe, but it seems like the fine tuning is completely off. For example the dojo scene. It has this weird yellow look to it. And yeah, I agree that it may have been yellow in the original, but it looks like it's just done all kinds of wrong. The balance of the colors between highlights and midtones looks very bad imo, most apparent in the faces. I just can't imagine any professional would have signed off on it like that. In the workprint it looks much more balanced, though not yellow at all.

Again, mine are just rough regrades - for sure the color match script has grabbed frames which are not in sync, and regraded one right BD frame using one wrong frame from film and/or workprint, so DO NOT take that comparison for granted; still, it gives you an idea of what to expect - MORE OR LESS!

I like a lot film colors, but I think that at least the interrogation scene should look green, as suggested by camrip, workprint, DVD, BD - and, IIRC, from interview and from Beber memories - that, even he says this should be a tad green, I can't see that green in the film version!

The "frankenstein" median version has its own "raison d'être"; when all three versions have the same colors, of course the median would have that; when only two have the same (more or less) colors, the one which is off would be put apart; indeed, apart that interrogation scene, that is green instead grey-ish, in the other scenes median and film are very very similar (and median is better when the film regrade has gone wild).

Also, another thing to take in account: BD master is from negative, so its dynamic range is wider than the film scan; when film colors are applied to BD, leaving the BD luma intact, of course the colors would not be that close... now, if we want to get closer colors to BD, film luma too should be matched, but in this case, there would be some black crush; white clipping is sadly inherent to the BD master, and can't be avoided.

But, there could be another way to get back details lost in clipping: using open matte and DVD, and align them spatially to BD, using the new script brought to us by random.next - I must admit I should have to put my hands on it yet, but this is a possibility. So, think this: BD for details, no dirt/debris/drop-outs/scratches, and low levels, DVD/OM for high levels, film+workprint+DVD to get filmic look (NOT the right one, beware!) that would be, in most scenes, very close to the film one.

I don't think I'll ever like the Frankengrade idea, sorry.

Would even prefer a BD->35mm, as there's a discernable purpose to that.

Hell, now that you've mentioned it though, why not take the Open Matte HDTV from the get go and regrade that one? Then there would be a more palpable positive side to it, other than no scratches/dust. Hell, it might even be possible to combine it with the full screen with that spatial alignment tool, which would be really fine. Only to find a source to replace the logo...

Edit: Perhaps there's an open matte laserdisc out there that could be used for the logo replacement?

(2017-12-28, 01:05 AM)TomArrow Wrote: I don't think I'll ever like the Frankengrade idea, sorry.

Would even prefer a BD->35mm, as there's a discernable purpose to that.

Ethically, I agree that the "frankengrade" (oh, I love this neologism!) would not be, well, ethic and a 35mm regrade would be, still there are so many fan made regrade around, that one more would not hurt (I hope).
But, bear with me, would you prefer a, let's say, 80% of the film regrade with 90% of accuracy, and 20% with 70% (due to forced use of lower quality matching script that do not produce artefacts), or 95% with 85% accuracy, and 5% that uses a different grading than film (namely, the interrogation scene so far)? Food for thought...

Quote:Hell, now that you've mentioned it though, why not take the Open Matte HDTV from the get go and regrade that one? Then there would be a more palpable positive side to it, other than no scratches/dust. Hell, it might even be possible to combine it with the full screen with that spatial alignment tool, which would be really fine. Only to find a source to replace the logo...

Yes, the open matte version could be surely regraded, and result *should* be nice; but the full screen has BD colors, so it would be hard to match both perfectly. Logo *may* fall within open matte, not sure, too lazy to compare...

Quote:Edit: Perhaps there's an open matte laserdisc out there that could be used for the logo replacement?

I don't think this one (http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/46143/ERA-...Matrix-The) is open matte...

(2017-12-28, 01:25 AM)spoRv Wrote: Ethically, I agree that the "frankengrade" (oh, I love this neologism!) would not be, well, ethic and a 35mm regrade would be, still there are so many fan made regrade around, that one more would not hurt (I hope).

Well, fair enough. It's just that I personally don't care for such a thing, but that shall not stop you. To be honest, neither do I really care for a 35mm regrade, so my opinion doesn't really matter anymore at this point.

(2017-12-28, 01:25 AM)spoRv Wrote: But, bear with me, would you prefer a, let's say, 80% of the film regrade with 90% of accuracy, and 20% with 70% (due to forced use of lower quality matching script that do not produce artefacts), or 95% with 85% accuracy, and 5% that uses a different grading than film (namely, the interrogation scene so far)? Food for thought...

Hmm, the first. But as noted above, my opinion isn't really important if you're doing a film regrade.

(2017-12-28, 01:25 AM)spoRv Wrote: Yes, the open matte version could be surely regraded, and result *should* be nice; but the full screen has BD colors, so it would be hard to match both perfectly. Logo *may* fall within open matte, not sure, too lazy to compare...

Fair enough

(2017-12-28, 01:25 AM)spoRv Wrote: I don't think this one (http://www.lddb.com/laserdisc/46143/ERA-...Matrix-The) is open matte...

Didn't zoidberg rip some Matrix LD? Was that one Open Matte? I don't recall. But, hear my absolutely crazy idea: Blu Ray + Full Screen, regraded to Workprint (which I hear is also Full Screen? Didn't check). Logo removal with: Workprint.

Workprint is just widescreen cropped to the sides, almost useless, still color matching is able to "suck" colors from it, dunno how - "it's a kind of magic... magic... MAGIC!"

(2017-12-28, 01:57 AM)spoRv Wrote: Workprint is just widescreen cropped to the sides, almost useless, still color matching is able to "suck" colors from it, dunno how - "it's a kind of magic... magic... MAGIC!"

Probably some kind of weird averaging of all the noisy pixels going on, resulting in something resembling color.

Do you ever use the fcpx color match technique? Not sure I asked already, but in Resolve, there is a features which automatically detects cuts. You then export the xml to fcpx. In fcpx you align the two sources, and then shot by shot, you match the colors. If the two sources are about the same size, it will match perfectly in every aspect of the shot ie if you match a picture with different kind of tree leaves, they will be matched exactly. It probably takes time but that way you have perfect color matches.