(2023-12-07, 08:33 PM)Doctor M Wrote: I saw a youtube stream with Bill Hunt from TheDigitalBits. He was talking about how (lazy restoration) is starting to use AI grain management (can't remember the name of the software).
Since different scenes tend to be filmed, zoomed or edited differently, the grain can change size and density. Since 4k makes this pronounced, the AI grain software can alter the grain so it becomes uniform throughout the movie, not just scrubbed and then artificially added.
I'm wondering if this is what they used.

Neat Video? Digital Vision Phoenix Finish? I'd be curious to know. I'm doing some NR and I don't want strange smeared grain as an after effect

Don't know.
The stream was on Midnight's Edge YouTube channel and I haven't been able to find it again since I watched it. I think it got taken down.

The color differences might be easily explained with a color space conversion or, more likely, the very act of projection altering the colors. I’m betting the colors on the UHD/BD will be the same as the HDTV but we will find out in a few days.

I watched the HDTV and don't see the same upscaling "artifacts" I did with the DCP so I'm hopeful that it is just a function of the DCP presentation. Maybe Dolby put certain work into the presentation? I've done enough upscaling, bi, laz, SR and now various AI to recognize the tell-tale patterns. I think one thing that people forget that when working with film they have to try to mitigate (read: soften) some of those effects to preserve a film look. Its my hope that what I saw was just the DCP but I heard that some people were complaining that Titanic looked artificial or that Avatar's (shot in 1080p) upscale was harsh. I've seen neither to judge for myself. I just hope these UHD aren't the laziest of work, 1080p/2K transfers upscaled to 4K.

I agree with Zoidberg that I think most all restorations now remove the grain before dirt removal/cleaning. You read enough articles or see enough restoration videos and its always there. That's the default workflow. I will say, outside of Cameron's work (read: T2) I've rarely seen a UHD whose video (not color, not audio) disappoints. Especially, since 4K is at the limits of film and close to the limit of the human eye and at reasonable distance. I will say that a real pro setup wouldn't add random grain after the fact. They should be able to store the grain pattern and reapplied the original grain back after work is done.

I'm hopeful these UHDs are going to be great but I'm developing doubt.

I've seen Titanic UHD, and half the shots look weird with artifacts you didn't see in previous cinema and DVD/BR versions.
For example when Rose wants to commit suicide, and Jack talks her out of it, her hair in certain shots looks painted/pasted on with a blur.
I think Cameron likes colorists to play with all the tools in resolve, and is not satisfied unless he has tried every possible tool on hand on his footage.
Also that's the way he now see those films. He wants them all to look like Avatar 2.

Prores Studio Version of the SE Trailer of the 4K release

https://nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/vob-...prores.mov

Trailer kindly provided by Jacques from movie-list.com

It should be better for comparison then the Youtube version

(2023-12-08, 04:08 PM)PDB Wrote: The color differences might be easily explained with a color space conversion or, more likely, the very act of projection altering the colors. I betting the colors on the UHD/BD will be the same as the HDTV but we will find out in a few days.

I watched the HDTV and don't see the same upscaling "artifacts" I did with the DCP so I'm hopeful that it is just a function of the DCP presentation.  Maybe Dolby put certain work into the presentation? I've done enough upscaling, bi, laz, SR and now various AI to recognize the tell-tale patterns. I think one thing that people forget that when working with film they have to try to mitigate (read: soften) some of those effects to preserve a film look. Its my hope that what I saw was just the DCP but I heard that some people were complaining that Titanic looked artificial or that Avatar's (shot in 1080p) upscale was harsh. I've seen neither to judge for myself. I just hope these UHD aren't the laziest of work, 1080p/2K transfers upscaled to 4K.

I agree with Zoidberg that I think most all restorations now remove the grain before dirt removal/cleaning. You read enough articles or see enough restoration videos and its always there. That's the default workflow. I will say, outside of Cameron's work (read: T2) I've rarely seen a UHD whose video (not color, not audio) disappoints. Especially, since 4K is at the limits of film and close to the limit of the human eye and at reasonable distance. I will say that a real pro setup wouldn't add random grain after the fact. They should be able to store the grain pattern and reapplied the original grain back after work is done.

I'm hopeful these UHDs are going to be great but I'm developing doubt.

There's tools to store the grain pattern and reapply later? If so I'm quite intrigued/interested

(2023-12-08, 08:07 PM)bendermac Wrote: Prores Studio Version of the SE Trailer of the 4K release

https://nyc3.digitaloceanspaces.com/vob-...prores.mov

Trailer kindly provided by Jaxques from movie-list.com

It should be better for comparison then the Youtube version

I already linked that here but always good for another

I went to HDB from Amazon The Abyss 1989 2160p WEB-DL DD+5.1 HEVC-FLUX but the quality is so-so, judging by the screenshots, we are waiting with DoVi)

(2023-12-11, 04:46 PM)maksnew Wrote: I went to HDB from Amazon The Abyss 1989 2160p WEB-DL DD+5.1 HEVC-FLUX but the quality is so-so, judging by the screenshots, we are waiting with DoVi)

FLUX-SDR

For comparison the older 1080p HDTV/Web-DL (may not be the same frame)



Can't confirm totally but it does look like TL is the same master as the Hulu one with not a lot of grain...