Looking for the "right" Terminator 2 color grading...

[Beber]

Slightly off topic: May I ask what CDS means?

Here it is:



The DVD Team Blu took it from supposedly is the CDS mix. I believe we have the same in France on the Ultimate Edition theatrical cut, but PAL sped-up obviously.

[Stamper]

I Dled the rutracker unofficial remaster and I like what the guy has done, but be warned he went a bit "different" for some sections which might be surprising to you if you are used to the old pink HD master. It's definetely worth a look.

I say regarding T2 you need to keep the 2015 edition for the best no DNR version of the old master, and the Skynet edition for the bonuses not included in the 2015 (you should basically just buy a double disc box and put both discs in it to make for your own custom "collectors edition").

However be warned it's totally off in some places when it comes to framing. Look at the shot on this page of Arnie holding the mini-gun, there's an insane amount of headroom and we don't see the mini-gun. It's fixed on the new release with an adjusted framing.

http://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Terminator...lu-ray/82/

I don't think the team blu release is available anymore, it used to be on tracker that closed.

IMHO the CDs mix is the right track it's much more dynamic than the near field remix we have currently.

Here's some info:

The first T2 DVD of the theatrical cut from Artisan uses the same 5.1 channel mix that was prepared for the 70mm Kodak/ORC Cinema Digital Sound prints (the DVD of Dick Dracy uses the CDS 5.1 mix too). Although T2 was also release in 6-track mag 70mm, the CDS 5.1 mix was completely unlimited I'm dynamics and had deeper bass since 70mm mag can't go lower than about 30 Hz in the bass and can only have peaks about 16db or so above reference level. The CDS mix had peaks +20db above reference and bass to below 20 Hz. Because CDS was basically brand new, the CDS mix for T2 was prepared separately from the 70mm 6-track mag version to take advantage of the CDS system. (Dick Tracy, the very first CDS film, also had a seperate CDS mix done)

For the DVD, Artisan used the CDS 5.1 digital master, which had been archived on the S-VHS ADAT format. CDS was a lossless 44.1kHz sampling, 16-bit system that used a modified form of Delta Modulation to pack the audio into a total bitrate of just over 5mbp/s, and it stored on the film with absolutely no analog back up - In addition to no mag backup on 70mm, Kodak/ORC even eliminated the optical soundtrack on the 35mm version of CDS. Lack of audio backup (which the engineers designing the system fought Kodak and ORC over) meant that if the digital system failed - and due to CDS' high bitrate and packing densities, it did fail, often - the audience was greeted with dead silence. It also caused nightmares in shipping replacement reels since CDS reels couldn't be used at all if a non-CDS theater accidentally got one. The lack of analog backup and poor system reliability - plus Dolby's vapor ware announcement of SR-D a full 18 months before they had even started working on a digital sound film system, meant that sales of CDS systems were very poor - its high cost of over $20,000 per screen didn't help. And Steven Spielberg's public statements that he would never use the system caused heads to roll at the CDS company and the system was discontinued the next day - Spielberg had wanted to use CDS on his film Hook, so he had CDS encode several reels, which kept dropping out during the test screening - Spielberg walked out in the middle of the screening and said he'd never use the system (this happened several years before DTS was invented, so that had noting to do with it). Other studios and filmmakers who were planning on using CDS for their films suddenly pulled out and Kodak/ORC began frantically looking for a buyer - none was found. So, until Dolby officially premiered Dolby SR-D with Batman Returns in late 1992 (there had been a few test screenings of prototype SR-D equipment), digital sound in theaters was kind of a dead issue.

Anyway, back to T2 - when the DVD was released I called Artisan and asked them what sound master they had used for the 5.1 Dolby Digital soundtrack - it took them a day or so to get back to me but they confirmed that it was the unlimited mix created for the Cinema Digital Sound prints. And as I stated in my earlier post, no other DVD or Blu-ray has used the CDS mix - the later discs have all had massive remixes - the CDS mix has a more "quadraphonic" soundfield to it with lots of side-wall phantom imaging. You can hear the dramatic difference in the first few mi utes of the film. Now, some may prefer the later Surround EX and DTS-ES mixes, but I think the CDS mix is the best both in overall fidelity and in the amazing sound imaging - its almost holographic. It's just a shame the video transfer is so over enhanced on the DVD.

[deleted user]

Slightly off topic: May I ask what CDS means?

Here it is:



The DVD Team Blu took it from supposedly is the CDS mix. I believe we have the same in France on the Ultimate Edition theatrical cut, but PAL sped-up obviously.

Interesting, thank you!

[Stamper]

Here's more. I also like the last paragraph, it's about T2, so wrong...

Also check this link http://home.earthlink.net/~stevekraus/cds.html

CDS was a delivery format, not a mixing format. Like the Dolby Digital and DTS that supplanted it, CDS was a highly-compressed codec that squeezed a 5.1 sound mix onto a theatrical release print. The actual 5.1 mix itself originated in PCM format on the studio master before compression. Unlike SDDS, which had a proprietary channel layout (5 channels across the front, plus 2 surrounds), CDS stored the same standard 5.1 configuration we still use on most media today.

The page you link to is filled with people whining about the movie receiving a near-field mix for home theater, as if that weren't standard practice with almost every movie made in the last 30 years, even if most of them don't advertise it. They also complain that a near-field mix is somehow a bad thing, which is ludicrous. No matter how fancy or expensive your home theater may be, it's neither the size nor shape of a theatrical auditorium, nor is it filled with hundreds of other people sitting around you. Home theater has completely different acoustics than a theatrical venue.

[zoidberg]

I saw that post on avsforum, was hoping someone here might take him on.

[Stamper]

Yes he conveniently leave out that the CDs, theatrical mix, was the go mix on DVD and LD and VHS for more than 7 years after the movie came out. So how can it be bad and not for your home set-up? Millions of people enjoyed the movie that way.

[dvdmike]

There are 70mm screenings all through January in London, I'm hoping to go as are a couple of other forum members. It should give a more than fair representation of how it looked and sounded theatrically.
Truth be told T1 would probably look the same 'under' the regrain as it was a degrain/cleanup/regrain. Pause and you'll see the DNR.
Anyone else got the new blu yet?

Give me a shout when you have a date. Will try and meet up

I am going to try and go depending on the date also

[dvdmike]

I saw that post on avsforum, was hoping someone here might take him on.

I wasn't in the mood for the fight!

[jonno]

The CDS sync on the TeamBlu release was actually my work, though I was never properly credited for it (not that I'm bitter or anything )

I read Disclord's research, found that DVD release and recut the AC-3 with Womble (which does segment editing of AC-3, so no re-encoding was involved). It syncs to the Skynet Japanese version as used by TeamBlu, but I'm happy to hear that it can be delayed to fit other releases. I may well do it over again should a considerably better release ever appear, assuming this track doesn't get another commercial release (and I think that's a pretty fair assumption).

If anyone wants a copy of the track on its own, let me know.

[ChainsawAsh]

I'd love a copy of the CDS mix! Do those sync directions need to be applied for it to work with the 2015 Blu?