Superman: The Movie 4K

[Booshman]

Why is it that the new 5.1 mix and the stereo mix on the BD are DTSHD-MA, but the 4k release gets a 640kbps ac3 version of the original 6 track?

I muxed the 4k audio with the videa from the theatrical bluray and it syncs up.

[Turisu]

Who knows? Obviously it would be better to have the 70mm track in a lossless format but I guess we're lucky that they even put it on the disc at all as opposed to just folding down the 7.1 track.

[Chewtobacca]

If it's really the six-track from the 70mm, then we are definitely lucky that it was included at all.  A lossless track would, of course, have been preferable, but (provided the mix remains unmolested) AC-3 at 640kbps should sound very good.

[Booshman]

If it's really the six-track from the 70mm, then we are definitely lucky that it was included at all.  A lossless track would, of course, have been preferable, but (provided the mix remains unmolested) AC-3 at 640kbps should sound very good.

I dunno man, feels like they're holding back for another dip down the line. They're eventually going to max out the resolution and sound quality they can release these movies in. Why give people the highest picture and audio quality in one hit, when you can get them for another disk later on. They have the audio in lossless quality, the home user has the kit to play it, and it would fit on the media they are using, I can't see any justification for not including it.

I've synced the laserdisc audio to the theatrical cut, so it is compatible with the 4K release and the bluray. If there is interest I can put it online, just PM me.

[Turisu]

Is the LD audio superior to the 2.0 track on the theatrical BD?

[Booshman]

Is the LD audio superior to the 2.0 track on the theatrical BD?

It's not as punchy as the DTS-HD. It sounds good to me though, even though my audio setup is a bit crap right now. I did it more for the sake of completionism I have Superman 3 and 4 laserdiscs audio synced to the movies, and have had the file for the first movie sat there for a long time without doing anything with it.

[Chewtobacca]

I dunno man, feels like they're holding back for another dip down the line. They're eventually going to max out the resolution and sound quality they can release these movies in.

Oh, there will almost certainly be a double-dip, but my guess is that it will come in the form of the TV cut and the 2000 cut appearing together down the line.  I remain skeptical that the original mix will appear in lossless.  Studio types imagine that they have maxed out the video and audio quality when they release a UHD BD with an Atmos mix, and unfortunately the average consumer agrees with them.  They tend to regard original mixes as a curiosity, which is why they feel they have done them justice with a lossy encoding.

In fact, my suspicion is that it's only because of Atmos that we received the original mix at all.  Without the craze for Atmos, Warner might well have settled for putting the 5.1 remix on the disc (as they have in the past) and not revisited the audio (going back to the '78 mixes) at all.

Needless to say, I agree with you when it comes to the original audio.  And there will certainly be interest in your synced LD PCM!  But the fact that Warner releases tend to be the same worldwide means that it's unlikely that we'll see the original mix in lossless on UHD BD.  I hope to be proven wrong.

[Wisp of Smoke]

If it's really the six-track from the 70mm, then we are definitely lucky that it was included at all.  A lossless track would, of course, have been preferable, but (provided the mix remains unmolested) AC-3 at 640kbps should sound very good.

Sounds quite good. Thanks to fine folk here, I was able to sample the 5.1 mix. Also was able to sample some of the "new" Atmos mix. and now will be ordering the 4K disc this week.

As most here know, the first Superman had a number of audio mixes: 70mm 6 track w/babybooms and split surrounds, 70mm with babybooms and mono surrounds, 35mm 4-track, 35mm Dolby Stereo, and even mono.  Then jump ahead to 2001 for the Thau / Donner 5.1 re-mix

This older but very informative interview covers these previous audio mix versions, albeit sometimes in a somewhat biased view being it is from Thau:  https://web.archive.org/web/200412061345...hau_1.html

I believe but cannot 100% confirm the letterboxed laserdisc mix utilized the 70mm mix, matrixed down to Dolby Surround for the PCM track. Not an uncommon thing to do in the letterboxed era of laserdiscs.   The bluray theatrical cut of the move offered a optional 2.0 track, likely the 35mm Dolby Surround mix.

The 4K reissue offers two new variants to home video.

The Thau / Donner 5.1 remix has now been morphed into a Dolby Atmos track. From various reports, it sounds as if the Atmos overheads channels are used quite effectively.  Another change was made to the Thau remix.  The audio now remains correctly center based until the opening credits start, then swells into full atmos sound. I don't have full atmos playback yet, but will be listening what I presume will be discrete 7.1 downmix for me soon of that mix, once the 4K arrives. 

The 640kb/s Dolby Digital track is the real hidden treat.  All of the Thau revisions are absent.  Krypton no longer sounds like chandelier planet and the beginning wooshes are subtle as they should be. And best of all, the minor but occasional subtle directional dialog has returned. It is often minor, but if your left/center/right speaker spread is wide you'll hear it easily. With this being a discrete mix, the directionality is easily better than the old laserdisc PCM mix.  The front channel spread even with sound effects sometimes is wider than the Thau mix! Split surrounds are occasional but effective. From what I've heard so far, the 5.1 is what we would expect of a movie mix of that time period.  This will mark the first time the 70mm split surround mix has ever appeared on home video in discrete form.

I believe there is a 2.0 Dolby Surround track on the 4K disc as well, and will be able to confirm once it arrives.

[Wisp of Smoke]

Life threw me a few curve balls, but wanted to pass along a quick follow up on the 4K disc which I finally picked up. A few nitpicks aside, I really do like the timing and felt the HDR is used conservatively. Having both audio mixes really is nice to have. While I detest the added "new" effects in the remix, dialog often sounds cleaner on the Atmos remix and when played in discrete 7.1 sounds clean. Make no mistake though, I still easily prefer the original 5.1 mix and am quite thankful it was finally made available in discrete form. Would have preferred a lossless 5.1 track, but even at DD 640kb/s, I'll take this discrete track easily over the previous 2.0 DTS-HD track or laserdisc PCM track.

btw: I was mistaken about the 2.0 mix being included on the 4K disc, but it is on the standard bluray which comes along for the ride with the 4K disc. According to some reports, while North America's 4K/bluray combo includes the theatrical edit on both discs, but the 4K/bluray combo in Europe has the Donner extended cut on the bluray included instead. Maybe someone here can confirm?

[Booshman]

Olver Harper mentions the UK release includes the BD of the longer cut.

About 2 mins into this vid: