Posts: 49
Threads: 7
Joined: 2019 Nov
Thanks: 56
Given 40 thank(s) in 12 post(s)
Country:
2020-12-05, 05:09 PM
(This post was last modified: 2020-12-05, 05:10 PM by SpookyDollhouse.)
So glad someone finally dug up another source. It was pretty well established to me at least these home video audio tracks are a weird hybrid mix and not original.
Good going on MGM and Kino's part!
Posts: 14
Threads: 0
Joined: 2019 May
Thanks: 17
Given 5 thank(s) in 5 post(s)
Country:
The chances of an Australian TV broadcast version using some hereto unknown unfinished mix and then somehow Kino getting their hands on it now for this release 40 odd years later, seems rather unlikely to me. The domestic and international mx is a possibilty, even if that is the case it still means Kino have indeed done their due diligence and put the original mono on the disc. fair play to them.
Posts: 645
Threads: 75
Joined: 2015 Feb
Thanks: 1141
Given 406 thank(s) in 227 post(s)
Country:
Another example of differing mixes is King Kong (1933)
The British audio mix appeared on the UK R2 Universal DVD from 2012.
Posts: 488
Threads: 22
Joined: 2017 Dec
Thanks: 51
Given 244 thank(s) in 167 post(s)
Country:
2020-12-06, 02:04 AM
(This post was last modified: 2020-12-06, 02:11 AM by SpaceBlackKnight.)
Several Australian films back in the day had distributors with little-to-no funding (or incentive) to do much with their product, other than getting titles out for theater/TV and video to stay afloat. Most distributors, film labs and storage facilities discarded original film and audio elements after making release prints and/or IPs for archival purposes. Some distributors made edits on certain films for a lower rating certificate (read ticket sales - moolah) directly on the negatives. In the case of another cult Aussie horror film Razorback, the OCN edits distributor Greater Union did were carried over to the IP and new prints made from it (though there were rumors of an uncut duplicate negative that was sent over to Toho-Towa for the subbed Japanese theatrical release). Some high profile directors and film funding groups did make efforts to preserve original elements or OCNs for future/export market purposes, but there were far few in-between that did and most had no money or very little left to even get the title out to theaters or overseas markets.
The AUS TV airing that someone posted clips from could be ether from an Aussie release print or IP/interneg element that Roadshow Films had in their possession, both or one of them very likely having mixing or footage differences from all the other copies out there. There was a rumor that Roadshow (producer and Australian distributor of Mad Max and it's later entries) shipped out the original film and audio elements for Mad Max, which included the OCN, to US distributor American International Pictures. AIP had gotten the complete Australian English mono stem (which MGM found when they had contracted Chace for the 5.1 re-release mix) and a M&E track for foreign dubbing purposes. AIP used the M&E track and parts of the Aussie mono track when they created their US dub and probably did other "touches" to it as well, which could also account for the mixing differences between the two.
It is known that most DVDs and BDs (even the Warner and Australian Roadshow ones) seem to utilize an IP from the US AIP version. Orion may have saved the OCN or discarded it when they made a dupe negative to create IPs and release prints off of, but the current 4k UHD transfer looks crisper than the MGM HD master used on the BDs. For one, the color timing here is probably untimed from the duped OCN, whereas the IP had a distinct color timing made for printing purposes.
When Warner obtained European and Asian distribution rights, AIP most likely shipped them an IP, both English tracks, and a M&E track for foreign dubs.
Posts: 14
Threads: 0
Joined: 2019 May
Thanks: 17
Given 5 thank(s) in 5 post(s)
Country:
2020-12-06, 03:36 AM
(This post was last modified: 2020-12-06, 03:38 AM by Johnno.)
The chances of Kino being handed a track which had been doctored specifically for austrailian TV just seems highly unlikely though, does it not? Who would have even archived it?
Its does seem though, that at some point quiet early on in the films lifespan a different mix was made ( as SBK speculates above).
All very interesting.
Posts: 173
Threads: 12
Joined: 2018 Aug
Thanks: 14
Given 76 thank(s) in 46 post(s)
Country:
2020-12-06, 03:38 AM
(This post was last modified: 2020-12-06, 03:38 AM by ac3.)
even if u get ahold of an older VHS copy its most likely not gonna be in hifi and they sound like shit
Posts: 2,706
Threads: 47
Joined: 2015 Jan
Thanks: 1642
Given 957 thank(s) in 610 post(s)
2020-12-06, 07:13 AM
(This post was last modified: 2020-12-06, 07:16 AM by Stamper.)
There are two genuine variations of the australian mix, that is now certain and the TV version is proof.
It's all had been rendered confusing by the existence of the downmixes that were released again and again on DVD and Blu-ray since the early 00's and both 5.1 remixes.
I'll check out the other TV versions on the internal, just to be sure.
As you say Black Night, this can probably help to trace the lineage of the foreign dubs as you describe.
All pretty interesting!
EDIT I agree on the timing, although it's way improved from the Blu-ray discs, it's still not 100% spots on with the IP (Warner DVD or early Image DVD or the Australian DVD). Still improved, nonetheless.
Posts: 488
Threads: 22
Joined: 2017 Dec
Thanks: 51
Given 244 thank(s) in 167 post(s)
Country:
Only way to get a concrete answer to all this would be tracking down an Aussie 35mm/16mm print (nearly impossible to find in any shape, unless someone on here has one or has contacts with one), or talking to someone at MGM's preservation unit and see what they know (they may not know all the specifics or won't communicate with outsiders about such info).
Posts: 2,706
Threads: 47
Joined: 2015 Jan
Thanks: 1642
Given 957 thank(s) in 610 post(s)
I checked out my Pal Australian DVD from I think 2001, and it also features the same dub as the one on the new UHD!
I checked again the Pal Warner Europe DVD preserv I did and it is as I said the different version of the aussie dub, with the added effects and louder gunshot effects.
The mono dubs from the Warner disc, go like this:
- Australian dub: added effects
- American dub : added effects
- French dub : added effects
- French stereo dub (from Blu-ray) : added effects
- Spanish mono dub : added effects
- German mono dub : added effects
- Italian mono dub : added effects
I didn't check the bonus audio tracks on the European Blu-ray as I got rid of it, but if someone still owns it, a list would be welcome.
