[request] Jurassic Park - 2DBD to 3DBD colours

[X5gb]

The problem with using the 1.85 ratio is that the 1.85 versions are all framed too tightly at the top. If the WOWOW is used, I think the Canal+/Sky/whatever should be used to lay in the extra picture on the edges (and maybe if we do want 1.85.1, a little could be shaved off the final combined image?)
I can't figure out why multiple transfers have had the same tightened cropping at the top. It can't be right...
And I do prefer the glowy subtitles, it feels more "optical" than the sharp ones of the other transfers. If the sharp ones are a recomposite, then I think the glowy ones should be used.

While, obviously there is more information at the top due to the mattes been opened I wouldn't say the 1.85:1 is framed tightly, there is only minimally more information on the Sky / Canal+ compared with the Wowow, not enough to worry about having to include it. Maybe the Bluray 1.85:1 is tight at the top due to the zoom-boxing on all four sides.

[TServo2049]

You mean the WOWOW doesn't have the zoom boxing of the 2DBD and the 3D version? In that case, that's good. I was under the mistaken impression that the WOWOW had the same cropping.

Do the subtitles have the glow too? (Or can you not tell? Are the Japanese subs for the establishing shots superimposed directly over the English ones?)

[spoRv]

Guys, sadly the Canal+ was, as I suspected, delogo'd - great work, indeed, but still retouched...

Take a look at this frame: http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/128572
you can clearly see traces of Canal+ FILM HD logo... I guess if the original, with logo, untouched version is still around!

[X5gb]

You mean the WOWOW doesn't have the zoom boxing of the 2DBD and the 3D version? In that case, that's good. I was under the mistaken impression that the WOWOW had the same cropping.

Do the subtitles have the glow too? (Or can you not tell? Are the Japanese subs for the establishing shots superimposed directly over the English ones?)

Re the zoom-boxing, the Wowow doesn't have it,except for the small matts top / bottom same as Sky / Canal+.

I believe the Wowow does have the glow, haven't watched in a while, but spoRv will confirm.
I don't think the Jap subs are superimposed over the establishing shots, again spoRv will confirm

[spoRv]

"Glow" present on WOWOW, as well as Japanese subs where there are English hardsubs for locations.

[Turisu]

It's sad that the Canal+ has been de-logo'd. I was really liking it as a source.

As for the aspect ratio; obviously OAR is always ideal for a theatrical preservation, but losing viable image information from the top of the screen as seen in the examples I posted is clearly not the theatrical intent. There are several examples of this throughout and they take me out of the movie every time. I find the open-matte version a far more immersive experience. So if it's a choice between poorly cropped OAR or open-matte 1.78:1 then my preference would be the open-matte.

Can anybody please post screenshots from the WOWOW that show the brachiosaur and Mr. DNA shots that I posted earlier to confirm that there is less cropping at the top of the frame in those scenes?

[jerryshadoe]

Personally, I don't think that it's a problem that the Canal+ version has been de-log'd. Reason being, that an frames that still have any residual "pixelation"/garbage left behind, can easily be patched with the WOWOW or SkyHD source.

I completely agree with you that OAR would be ideal for theatrical preservation (especially if it includes the Cinema DTS track) but it seems that all "OAR" copies do, in fact, have a little bit of info missing from the top of the screen. I am wondering whether, using the "open-matte" HDTV source, we can help solve this problem by "adding" in the top and just cropping the bottom of instead. Some people will have a problem with this (which I would understand) at which point the best option would be to just do an open-matte version.

For those that have it, I am also interested in the screenshots from the WOWOW encode that "Turisu" mentioned.

One more thing... Andrea mentioned (in an earlier post) that the 3DBD has "similar" color-grading to the original (while all of the other encodes are different) and I'm wondering whether we have a "proper" color-timing reference to use for a possible restoration project... Have any of the releases (including VHS and Laserdisc) actually had the theatrical color-timing? If not, what would be used as a reference?

[Turisu]

I completely agree with you that OAR would be ideal for theatrical preservation (especially if it includes the Cinema DTS track) but it seems that all "OAR" copies do, in fact, have a little bit of info missing from the top of the screen. I am wondering whether, using the "open-matte" HDTV source, we can help solve this problem by "adding" in the top and just cropping the bottom of instead. Some people will have a problem with this (which I would understand) at which point the best option would be to just do an open-matte version.

I think that's problematic because perhaps the cropping is only wrong in certain scenes. It seems to me that the problem with the BD is that they just applied a blanket crop to the whole film whereas perhaps some scenes should have been framed differently to others. I'm not sure applying another blanket crop would correct this and may just create more issues. Also, I think digital tweaking should only be used where strictly necessary (logos etc.) as I'm conscious that adding too much work to a preservation makes it less likely to ever see the light of day.

One more thing... Andrea mentioned (in an earlier post) that the 3DBD has "similar" color-grading to the original (while all of the other encodes are different) and I'm wondering whether we have a "proper" color-timing reference to use for a possible restoration project... Have any of the releases (including VHS and Laserdisc) actually had the theatrical color-timing? If not, what would be used as a reference?

The short answer is no, we don't have a definitive colour reference for what JP looked like theatrically. However, all the 35mm film cells and original publicity material I can find strongly suggest that the warm brownish look of the 3DBD was a genuine attempt restore the theatrical look of the film. The telltale scene for me is the T-Rex attacking the jeeps. Every home video release has this scene with a heavy blue tint which does not appear nearly as strong in the 35mm cells. The DVD release was warmer than the 2DBD overall but still had that blue cast in this scene. The 3DBD removes the blue and looks very close to the 35mm cells.

I agree that it's very important to colour grade to a reference and, right now, I believe the 3DBD is the best reference we have for the theatrical look of the film.

[jerryshadoe]

Well, I wasn't suggesting a "blanket" crop for the entire movie, but a scene by scene effort, which would definitely make this a more time-consuming project to take on... however if it's going to be done, might as well be done once and done "right" and we do have some exceptional skills from numerous people on this board (I would tackle it myself, as I love this film, but don't have the HDD space or time to do it right now)

I understand what you are talking about when you mention the heavy blue tint, which always bothered me as it's NOT the way I remember seeing it in the theater (saw this movie 5 times when it came out and was very disappointed with the "official" releases) You have obviously done some extensive research on the color-timing and if you think that the 3DBD is close (even if not perfect) to the theatrical presentation then I would agree with you that it's the closest reference we have and should be used for the project

Regardless, the best audio option for the project will be the Cinema DTS track, which is very different from ANY of the official releases that are available. On that note, (and this is just me bitching and nothing else) why the f*ck do studios mess with a good thing and "re-mix" everything to death? We see this with many movies that supposedly have their "original" mono mixes that turn out to be nothing more than downmixes of 5.1 remixes? Can you say back-asswards, LOL?

[X5gb]

Does anyone know of a nzb search engine that covers a period of 2353 days beside nzbclub as full quality Canal+ is on Usenet but nzbclub does not see all of the files.