Far field mixes are fine at home. There were people absolutely adamant that a theatrical far field mix would destroy your speakers and it would be dangerous to even consider including them on home releases. Then Criterion released The Game with near and far field mixes.

Turisu have you heard the LD tracks for The Matrix? It's strange that you claim the BD TrueHD tracks to be the closest as that was the release that was considered weaker than previous releases, or are you referring to the remastered BD?

Also to go back to an earlier point Cinema DTS does not have a matrixed subwoofer channel. It is stored in the surround channels and is low-pass filtered for playback. As a result the subwoofer carries the LFE information and any low frequencies contained in the surround channels, which is why the waveform for LFE channels looks 'busier' on C-DTS tracks. By contrast the waveform of surround channels will look different, but as long as the extraction is done properly the resulting sound will be the same as bass is non-directional (indeed if listening on a satellite surround system all low frequencies will be sent to the subwoofer anyway).

(2021-10-01, 01:04 PM)spoRv Wrote:

(2021-10-01, 12:24 PM)Turisu Wrote: It seems that the DTS LD has the theatrical mix but with the surrounds unattenuated by the required -3dB.

So if it's the only problem, let's reduce it by 3dB and presto! We have the theatrical track!

That, and, restore all the high frequencies cut off by DTS.

(2021-10-01, 05:54 PM)TomArrow Wrote: That, and, restore all the high frequencies cut off by DTS.

?!?

Can you elaborate more? And, Cinema DTS or laserdisc DTS? I mean, APT-X100 or DCA?

Cinema DTS and LD DTS are both full-frequency. Half-bitrate DTS (as used on the DVDs) has the 15kHz roll-off

(2021-10-01, 06:38 PM)zoidberg Wrote: Cinema DTS and LD DTS are both full-frequency. Half-bitrate DTS (as used on the DVDs) has the 15kHz roll-off

Indeed, that's why I asked explanations!

Tom, we are waiting for your answer...

That's strange. I could have sworn full-bitrate DTS cuts off frequencies above 20khz or so... but I just did a few tests with ffmpeg and it seems it doesn't?!? I wonder why I believed it then... perhaps it's only the ffmpeg encoder that doesn't... hmm.. next time I come across one of these, I have to check.

I'm really surprised because I recall working even with DTS-HD HR and the upper frequencies were a bit compromised. Maybe I just remember wrong? hmmm

However it does cut off LFE above a few kHz or so it seems, at least with ffmpeg.

(2021-10-01, 05:51 PM)zoidberg Wrote: Far field mixes are fine at home. There were people absolutely adamant that a theatrical far field mix would destroy your speakers and it would be dangerous to even consider including them on home releases. Then Criterion released The Game with near and far field mixes.

Turisu have you heard the LD tracks for The Matrix? It's strange that you claim the BD TrueHD tracks to be the closest as that was the release that was considered weaker than previous releases, or are you referring to the remastered BD?

Also to go back to an earlier point Cinema DTS does not have a matrixed subwoofer channel. It is stored in the surround channels and is low-pass filtered for playback. As a result the subwoofer carries the LFE information and any low frequencies contained in the surround channels, which is why the waveform for LFE channels looks 'busier' on C-DTS tracks. By contrast the waveform of surround channels will look different, but as long as the extraction is done properly the resulting sound will be the same as bass is non-directional (indeed if listening on a satellite surround system all low frequencies will be sent to the subwoofer anyway).

That's some interesting info about the LFE. So I wonder what process they use that
renders the 'less active' LFE channel we see in home mixes.

As for The Matrix; the mixes I've compared (DVD AC3, BD TrueHD, BD AC3, BD AC3 Core, UHD AC3, UHD AC3 Core) all have a boosted centre channel compared to the cinema DTS except for the BD TrueHD 5.1 which is just a slightly less dynamic version of the theatrical mix. I haven't got the LD audio but I was led to believe it was the same as the DVD. If anyone has it I'd be happy to compare .

(2021-10-01, 05:51 PM)zoidberg Wrote: Far field mixes are fine at home. There were people absolutely adamant that a theatrical far field mix would destroy your speakers and it would be dangerous to even consider including them on home releases. 

My equipment is more on the mid-range side of things compared to some of the really high end home theaters out there, and I much prefer some of the far field mixes I've been able to test out. Even though my space is relatively small a good far field mix makes it feel a lot bigger.

Thanks to another kind member I've now had the opportunity to check out the DTS DVD of TLW. As I thought it's the theatrical mix with all channels correct.

Thanks for doing this and happy to help. I did my own rip of JP theatrical DTS with true DTS hardware and made only attenuation as needed for LFE and surrounds: kept it true 24fps 16-bit 44.1khz. I find this to be my favorite mix of the film and the least messed with.

That's interesting info on the DTS DVD of the Lost World. I'd love to see a full rundown of those mixes because my suspicion has always been that the DTS LD was the best of the bunch. I'd love to get a sync of the theatrical track of it.