[Help] The Keep (Michael Mann, 1983) – 35mm Scan

[dvdmike]

Unless it magically has the missing 3 hours he and Paramount may not love it

Why would Paramount not love it? They forced the shorter cut of the film

They don't love it full stop, originally it was a falling out but now it's rights issues.
A renewed interest may mean crawling back to Mann and paying Tangerine Dream to release a new version

[zoidberg]

I think there's more chance of a Director's cut of David Lynch's Dune than there is of any kind of new release of The Keep. However I would like to be proven wrong

[dvdmike]

I don't see them doing it, but stranger things have happened

[Endocryne]

Unless it magically has the missing 3 hours he and Paramount may not love it

Why would Paramount not love it? They forced the shorter cut of the film

They don't love it full stop, originally it was a falling out but now it's rights issues.
A renewed interest may mean crawling back to Mann and paying Tangerine Dream to release a new version

Eh
Why they have to get the Rights to tangerine dream?

[Bilbofett]

Unless it magically has the missing 3 hours he and Paramount may not love it

Why would Paramount not love it? They forced the shorter cut of the film

They don't love it full stop, originally it was a falling out but now it's rights issues.
A renewed interest may mean crawling back to Mann and paying Tangerine Dream to release a new version

Eh
Why they have to get the Rights to tangerine dream?

Because TD had rights-issues with Virgin, originally, over the soundtrack. On top of that, Mann edited their temp tracks, so its a question even of which version(s) to approve, license.. on top of that, one of the members of TD has died, on top of that, the version they've officially output a year or two back, wasn't even the final version we heard in the movie, it was some other version or a remake. So... couple all of that with missing footage (probably no negatives or interpositives), Mann and others being unable to finish certain scenes because the director of SFX had died.. and its a clusterfuck. I've been thinking about all the reasons for awhile and last night I had an epiphany; I theorize that Mann (or people approved by him) have actually ATTEMPTED a new D.C. from extra-footage, and either couldn't find much at all (if any), or the results were so poor that Mann doubled-down on his stance that a new version will never be completed on his watch. I thought that the only way we'd ever see it is after Mann passes away, if any extra footage could ever be found to begin with.

[Endocryne]

Unless it magically has the missing 3 hours he and Paramount may not love it

Why would Paramount not love it? They forced the shorter cut of the film

They don't love it full stop, originally it was a falling out but now it's rights issues.
A renewed interest may mean crawling back to Mann and paying Tangerine Dream to release a new version

Eh
Why they have to get the Rights to tangerine dream?

Because TD had rights-issues with Virgin, originally, over the soundtrack. On top of that, Mann edited their temp tracks, so its a question even of which version(s) to approve, license.. on top of that, one of the members of TD has died, on top of that, the version they've officially output a year or two back, wasn't even the final version we heard in the movie, it was some other version or a remake. So... couple all of that with missing footage (probably no negatives or interpositives), Mann and others being unable to finish certain scenes because the director of SFX had died.. and its a clusterfuck. I've been thinking about all the reasons for awhile and last night I had an epiphany; I theorize that Mann (or people approved by him) have actually ATTEMPTED a new D.C. from extra-footage, and either couldn't find much at all (if any), or the results were so poor that Mann doubled-down on his stance that a new version will never be completed on his watch. I thought that the only way we'd ever see it is after Mann passes away, if any extra footage could ever be found to begin with.

Damn, Copyright Is A Clusterfuck

[dvdmike]

The soundtrack is a mess and there are depending in who you listen to, like 3 cuts.
But it's one of what, 2 movies Mann hasn't recut on home video?

[zoidberg]

I think I read that an optical effect was redone for the home video release but don't quote me on that

[Bilbofett]

The soundtrack is a mess and there are depending in who you listen to, like 3 cuts.
But it's one of what, 2 movies Mann hasn't recut on home video?

what's the other one? Are you talking about his Lucas-like need to tamper?
I can name 5 offhand:

Thief (I think?)
Collateral (certainly hasn't done a 2nd cut.. right?)
Ali
Public Enemies (I really doubt there's another cut of this)
Collateral (same as Public)

What about the Insider?

[LucasGodzilla]

I think I read that an optical effect was redone for the home video release but don't quote me on that

I can confirm that this was the case. It was the effect where the nazi hanging off by a rope gets enveloped by Molasar. The original effect gave the interior of the keep far more depth, but was—unfortunately (likely due to how the final cut was rushed)—barely visible on the print. On the TV broadcast version and up, this effect was redrawn so that you could actually see the effect now—though it looks rather cruder in comparison.

---

Regarding the whole cuts situation, there was a string of posts on the Blu-ray Forum by Kino Lorber Insider that sort of went into the series of unfortunate events as to why no new official restoration of the movie exists...

Mann is blocking the release of the theatrical cut. We had acquired it years ago, but had to drop it, another label picked it a couple of years ago and they also had to drop it.

A reconstruction of The Keep "Director's Cut" could potentially cost millions and it may not even be possible, some of those edited scenes may no longer exist and were most likely purged after the they hit the cutting room floor.

Nothing strange about it, due to DGA (Director's Guild of America) rules, no new HD/2K/4K master can be created without the consent of the director.

Any US label could've released the old SD master on DVD, but neither KL or the label who acquired it after us were interested in a DVD ONLY release.