[Help] The Keep (Michael Mann, 1983) – 35mm Scan

[zoidberg]

I had seen the Kino post about Mann and The Keep. It makes me wonder what the situation is with Dune 1984 and Lynch, I know there was a 4K remaster recently but I somehow doubt Lynch signed off on it.

[LucasGodzilla]

I had seen the Kino post about Mann and The Keep. It makes me wonder what the situation is with Dune 1984 and Lynch, I know there was a 4K remaster recently but I somehow doubt Lynch signed off on it.

I admit I'm not 100% sure what exactly is the situation regarding Dune, but I do find this interview excerpt from four months ago when Inland Empire was restored.

AVC: Some notable filmmakers have returned to their works years later with re-edits, because just as a viewer’s relationship to a piece of art can change over time, so too can a creator’s. Was a new narrative cut something you ever considered with Inland Empire?

DL: No. But Dune—people have said, “Don’t you want to go back and fiddle with Dune?” And I was so depressed and sickened by it, you know? I want to say, I loved everybody that I worked with; they were so fantastic. I loved all the actors; I loved the crew; I loved working in Mexico; I loved everything except that I didn’t have final cut. And I even loved Dino [De Laurentiis], who wouldn’t give me what I wanted [laughs]. And Raffaella, the producer, who was his daughter—I loved her. But the thing was a horrible sadness and failure to me, and if I could go back in I’ve thought, well, maybe I would on that one go back in.

AVC: Really?

DL: Yeah, but I mean, nobody’s…it’s not going to happen.

AVC: Well that’s interesting, because in the past you were always much less open to it.

David Lynch: Yeah, I wanted to walk away. I always say, and it’s true, that with Dune, I sold out before I finished. It’s not like there’s a bunch of gold in the vaults waiting to be cut and put back together. It’s like, early on I knew what Dino wanted and what I could get away with and what I couldn’t. And so I started selling out, and it’s a sad, sad, pathetic, ridiculous story. But I would like to see what is there. I can’t remember, that’s the weird thing [laughs]. I can’t remember. And so it might be interesting—there could be something there. But I don’t think it’s a silk purse. I know it’s a sow’s ear.

[zoidberg]

I read Lynch's recent comments on Dune, as I understand it at one point in time he was genuinely prepared to revisit it but Universal weren't prepared to fund it. So that was that.
I am still tempted to take Kino's comments on The Keep with a pinch of salt, they've been economical with the truth in the past. I can't help but think if it was truly down to Mann disowning it then some kind of Alan Smithee arrangement could have been made

[dvdmike]

The soundtrack is a mess and there are depending in who you listen to, like 3 cuts.
But it's one of what, 2 movies Mann hasn't recut on home video?

what's the other one? Are you talking about his Lucas-like need to tamper?
I can name 5 offhand:

Thief (I think?)
Collateral (certainly hasn't done a 2nd cut.. right?)
Ali
Public Enemies (I really doubt there's another cut of this)
Collateral (same as Public)

What about the Insider?

Thief has 3 cuts
Ali has a directors cut
The Insider also wasn't recut
You have collateral twice but he is worse than Lucas for me

[dvdmike]

I had seen the Kino post about Mann and The Keep. It makes me wonder what the situation is with Dune 1984 and Lynch, I know there was a 4K remaster recently but I somehow doubt Lynch signed off on it.

Think Arrow tried to get him to sign off on the longer version and he said no but gave his blessing for the 4k

[Endocryne]

I think I read that an optical effect was redone for the home video release but don't quote me on that

I can confirm that this was the case. It was the effect where the nazi hanging off by a rope gets enveloped by Molasar. The original effect gave the interior of the keep far more depth, but was—unfortunately (likely due to how the final cut was rushed)—barely visible on the print. On the TV broadcast version and up, this effect was redrawn so that you could actually see the effect now—though it looks rather cruder in comparison.

---

Regarding the whole cuts situation, there was a string of posts on the Blu-ray Forum by Kino Lorber Insider that sort of went into the series of unfortunate events as to why no new official restoration of the movie exists...

Mann is blocking the release of the theatrical cut. We had acquired it years ago, but had to drop it, another label picked it a couple of years ago and they also had to drop it.

A reconstruction of The Keep "Director's Cut" could potentially cost millions and it may not even be possible, some of those edited scenes may no longer exist and were most likely purged after the they hit the cutting room floor.

Nothing strange about it, due to DGA (Director's Guild of America) rules, no new HD/2K/4K master can be created without the consent of the director.

Any US label could've released the old SD master on DVD, but neither KL or the label who acquired it after us were interested in a DVD ONLY release.

So will have to wait till Mann Dies?

[dvdmike]

The concemt thing is for new productions isnt it

[iguanaclerk]

Yeah, for older productions I believe DGA requires the director have the right to consult on new releases, but ultimately a company could release stuff over their objections (again, that's my understanding, I have not actually read the entire DGA basic agreement). More than likely though at that point you've made an enemy of Mann, lol, so probably not worth it from their perspective.

[luppy]

Hello everyone, just discovered this site whilst trying to track down the 35mm 3840p version of the keep.
I didn't realise you guys do awesome stuff like this yourselves and support each other on the various restore projects you do.  What an amazing community.

I would love to contribute to this (or something else in it's place).  Is it still possible to donate and/or get a copy of the 38GB version?

This would add to my collection of the keep stuff, I have the board game, some of the rare tangerine dream CDs, (cues, limited edition cardboard digi etc), some graphic novels.

[Bilbofett]

And for everyone, just saw this:


https://tinyurl.com/thekeepd0c

"***First official advanced teaser to debut Dec 16th, 2023, at midnight GMT***
With The Keep's 40th anniversary approaching, we'll be sharing our first advanced teaser for the documentary on December 16th 2023, at midnight, GMT.
We are, as always, incredibly appreciative of the patience that this long elongated project has taken and despite the lack of solid updates and the unpredictable nature of the current business we're in, we are finally able to look forward to the future.
See you on Saturday 16th December!"