We Are The Walking Dead (Mini-Series) FANedit

[jedeitor]

Jerry, if you jump from the car chase/Rick getting shot to Rick waking up, it has sense that he calls Shane, because he was shot while being with him.

The Shane/Lori subplot was hinted and quite revealed without the need of the "f*ckin' in the woods" scene, and is part of why Shane wants to kill Rick. I think it's important.

You are right, I should watch the entire workprint before making a judgement, but I thought the fades to join all those flashbacks would be a separate thing from the "today" action, so it would just be a problem at the beginning.

Going back to the cutting room, I would start directly with the chase (not with Rick and Shane in the car), and jump to rick waking up after the shooting, but I will watch the full workprint before adding anything else.

[jerryshadoe]

@ Andrea - PM sent regarding the Italian audio... (long story short, will send you "rough cut" later today)

@ jedeitor - you are right about it making sense that Rick calls for Shane since he was with him when he got shot, HOWEVER then I would be facing the problem of where to put the intro and, as I mentioned earlier, I REALLY like the "sense of fear and confusion" that is presented in the "highway flashback" scene. (after I hear more feedback on rest of workprint, I'll address this issue)

The sub-plot of Shane wanting to kill Rick is something that is important IF it gets included. For now, the Shane/Lori "relationship" is only SLIGHTLY hinted at in my edit of the first season and I'm still wondering if I will include it in the second season or (if it's included) how I would incorporate it (because I can always just make Shane look like a psycho that goes after Rick for no reason, well maybe that's a bad idea, but I will worry about that sub-plot during the editing of the second film. For now, in the first film, it would just "muddy the waters" and extend the runtime too much. Also, as I mentioned earlier, I am trying to present the story from Rick's "point of view" and he is NOT aware of the Shane/Lori thing until season 2 anyway (where I might just wait to include that sub-plot until Glen gets the pills for Lori as that's when Rick "become aware" of this himself which goes perfectly with me presenting the story from "his point of view" instead of what the show does by making the audience aware of it earlier)

No worries concerning your opinion about the "flashbacks" in the beginning of the workprint. This is EXACTLY why there is a WORKPRINT and why I was asking for volunteers to take a look at this project. I kind of "hit a wall," with this project. I know that most of the editing that I did will work, but I also knew that there are still some problems and wanted a "fresh pair of eyes" to take a look at this.

As far as starting the film directly with the chase, I tried that and because that scene is already cut down (a lot) it seemed too rushed (and too short) starting directly with the car chase. Starting the scene from them being in the cop car (excluding their very boring conversation before-hand) and getting "the call" about the chase made the scene make more sense and only added a minute to the runtime. This is NOT "set in stone" yet and we'll see what happens.

Looking forward to your comments after you have viewed the entire thing. The reason this workprint is timecoded is to make it VERY EASY to help identify any parts that need work and, if I may suggest, when you post your comments on issues throughout the movie, that you list the timecodes (except, of course, the beginning of film before credits as we have already discussed that part)

I know I sound like a broken record here, but thank you again for your interest and help. It means a lot to me and I will definitely include a credit for you in the final info as being a big help to the project

And now, that I have been up all night again, it's time for me to sleep a couple of hours before my 5 and 3 year-old daughters wake me up...
Peace... zzzzzzzzzzzzzz, LOL

[jerryshadoe]

ok, so as promised to Andrea, here's a "rough cut" of the Italian audio track:

old workprint, link dead

It's an AC3 1.0 mono track encoded at 112kbps and is 111MB in size.

PLEASE REMEMBER that this track is the center channel (channel 3) from a 5.1 mix that has NOT been custom synced to the language and still has the timing and crossfades that I'm using in the English "master." So not only may there be issues with timing of cuts/crossfade due to the foreign language track but ALSO due to errors that are still in the ENGLISH "MASTER!"

Also, for some reason, when I encoded the workprint, vegas inserted a blank frame on frame 1 (starting with a frame 0 on timeline) so when muxing this track you have to put in a 41ms delay to keep the track properly in sync

KNOWN ISSUES (by me) in the English workprint, so far, that will also sound off on the Italian track:

31:18 - here the music transition is off and I need to re-adjust it to an earlier version that I had which worked waaaaay better, so I'm aware of this one
50:03 - the sfx of Rick landing on the ground is missing and needs to be re-added back in (not sure how yet due to cut of that scene but will figure it out)
59:07 - the one second shot of Andrea after she's says no will be cut and the facial expression Rick makes to her saying no and his comment (and attitude) about the safety on the gun works much better
1:23:37 - the timing of music transition is a little off (IMO) where the second fade in is perfect but it seems like to me that the music from the first part (where Daryl is on screen) is like 100ms too long... I mean it's not a bad transition but it still seems a little "off" to me
1:54:36 - the timing of the chime on the second part sounds a little too loud initially (????) this one I'm not sure whether it's a volume issue on the crossfade or a slight timing issue
2:13:30 - the music starts for a moment and just abruptly cuts off (will be worse on foreign tracks that are not originally from a 5.1 source as on the English one I was able to play a couple of "tricks" and will be able to "fill in the gap" although it's not right on the english workprint yet either) this is due to the trimming of the entire Jenner locking everyone in the CDC scene and having to play "tricks" to still establish the tension of "holy sh*t, we gotta get the hell out of here!"

There may be others on the English "master" but nothing really stood out when I screened it yesterday. For those wondering, this is like the 15-16th workprint now (or something like that) and I have extensive notes (if I were to print it all, with a Georgia sized 9 font comes out to 11 pages so far) and there have been workprints that had as many as 25-30 corrections that needed to be addressed. Also, numerous re-cuts of scenes and so on, so with the list mentioned above, there really isn't much on the technical side that needs to be addressed. Now it's just a matter of making sure that the story is coherent and the "ride" is a pleasurable experience.

Peace

[spoRv]

OK, just finished to watch it... the whole job is good, as it "concentrate" a whole season into a film-like long episode; but there are some "bugs" here and there...

Italian track: in two or three instances, there are an abrupt cut in the middle of a phrase or word... I can live with it, but I wanted to let you know that is not perfect... by memory, one was at the very beginning, during the police car chase - the police radio message was cut; another near the end, where there was the first brain images on the big screen in the CDC - a kid was asking something when he was interrupted...

Transitions: some are good, but I dislike the ones which goes from end scene - almost negative - new scene... I'd use a end scene - fade to black - fade from black to new scene; using these, I'll also replace the two or three actual white fades.

Last thing: around 1h47m I'd delete completely the scene when Andrea is over her sister in the morning, leaving only the scene before, when she's crying, because, as it this now, we wonder "what happened to Andrea's sister?"

Well, here you are my feedbacks... hope these are constructive!

[jerryshadoe]

Andrea, a HUGE thanx for taking the time to watch this workprint! I'm glad that you enjoyed most of it and now my comment to your post:

Italian track: I knew that there will be some problem spots where part of dialog cuts off because I noticed this when syncing to source English tracks. I just didn't know where it would happen in the "final" film. The part in beginning where something from radio gets cut is a LOT more noticeable in the foreign tracks because in the English track this is a little "muted" and more in the "background" (all foreign dubs except the French one have this issue) Also in the English track, WHAT they actually say "melts" together nicely where I was worried that on foreign tracks this might be problematic. I might be able to partially solve this by adjusting the crossfades and by panning some of it to the front channels as well (like SOME parts are on the English master. On side note, there are a few parts where I will have to do some panning work to match the 5.1 mix present in the original English track.) The part at the CDC where Carl gets interrupted in the Italian track, do NOT exist in the English track because I cut that part out for pacing and to make it a more serious, tense scene. Once this project is complete for the video cuts, if you could go through the "final" workprint (once it's available, of course LOL) and let me know which places need fixing I would greatly appreciate it.

Transitions: the end scene almost negative new scene effect worked best on the transition when Rick is in the tank with all the walkers outside feasting on the horse (this is the end of episode 1 and the beginning of episode 2 after the intro) I tried NUMEROUS different "styles" of transitions here and that one matched the music best as the transition (negative effect, actually called "subtractive dissolve") happens on a distinct chord in the music. This one I am kind of set on. When it comes to the others, I'm wondering exactly which ones bothered you as some of them were used due to limitations (transitions would be too abrupt of there would be an audio issue like sfx bleeding from previous/next scene where I had to play some tricks to get some of it to work) The transition with Glen in the mustang was a similar issue with sfx in audio channels... The transition from Rick driving the truck with everyone away from walkers at building to the truck on the highway really worked well, IMO, because any other way I tried it there was a sense that something is "off" because the truck is driving in one direction in first scene and then back towards where it came from (even though they are now on a different road) in the next scene. EVERYONE I showed it to (somewhere around workprint3 or 4) noticed how abrupt and "out-of-whack"/weird it seemed. Here I tested various different ways to make it work and the "bleeding" of the background with the "flow" of the truck "morphing" from one to other just worked best, especially with the audio here. As far as white fades are concerned, I admit that even I don't like a couple of them. However, two or three that are present in the original show. first one that comes to mind, is when Jim wakes up in the RV after he was bit, this was originally a white fade, that I incorporated with the transition I was making there myself and it worked PERFECTLY with the 5.1 track for excellent sync to transition. The second that comes to mind, is when Rick and the group are in front of CDC and Jenner opens the door. Here, there is also a white flash, which I used to cut the end of episode 5 with the episode 6 after the intro. The rest of the white flashes are up for debate and I'm happy to hear you point out which one and I can let you know if a "major change" can be made there due to limitations in the source video and audio. I had to play some "tricks" to make some things work and some of the "tricks" still bother me and I'm open to suggestions. As far as fade to black, you probably noticed that I AVOIDED it in the entire movie. Let me tell you why... IMHO, a fade to black and the fade from black would make it seem TOO much like a tv show (you know, where they usually insert a commercial on tv) and I was trying to "turn" this into a "film-format." If I'm mistaken here, please say so and I will see what I can do depending on what the source allows me to do.

Last thing: it's funny that you say I should cut that scene at 1h47m because it wasn't in the "original" workprint. I added it back in because of the music there working so nicely and creating the "right atmosphere" of "tragedy," and because it tied in nicely with the whole "joke" that Rick makes to Andrea in Atlanta about "next time, take your safety off, it doesn't work otherwise..." I NEVER thought that people would wonder what happened to her. To me, it's obvious (by that point of the film, just like with Jim later under that tree - we never see him turn or get shot either) that Amy is dead because we saw her getting bit on the arm and the neck so... well, maybe that's just me and I may be wrong. It's also funny that you mention Andrea's "sister" because in this presentation I edited together, I noticed that it's NEVER clarified WHO Amy is. I completely cut out any "sister" reference, so people are just left wondering "is that her sister?" or "is that her lover?" which to mean doesn't matter either way because Amy is irrelevant to the story I'm presenting and Andrea, IMO, is kind of dumb (she shoots Daryl but doesn't kill the Governor, WHAT?!) and I will be limiting her character in the series of film a LOT.

Of course your feedback is constructive Andrea and I greatly appreciate your time and comments. I will take ALL comments (from you and others) into consideration and will post updates about what I'm able to do "technically" because I am limited on options in some instance due to source limitations. Look forward to hearing back from you

Also, I hope to hear back from jedeitor, once he has had a chance to view the workprint and post a comment.

[spoRv]

About Andrea's sister: even if the other viewers didn't remember that, thay claimed immediately she was her sister - maybe thanks to her resemblance; about "what happened" after; I watched it again... now I know why: Andrea was over her sister in the "middle" of the camp, while the shot after they are very very close to the motorhome... don't know if it's due to your cuts, or was in the original, but that fact distracted me (us) quite a bit, that's why "what happened?"...

Fades: I agree with you, fades to black and back may seems like the ones used to insert commercial, but I saw them also on movies - not many, but not so few... try to use fades to black whenever you used crossfades; audio fade could start some ms before the black, and some ms after for the next scene; then, if it will work, replace the white fades with black just for continuity.

Audio: of course I'll give you further feedbacks when it will be the time!

[jerryshadoe]

Andrea & Amy shots/angles/location: So I was wondering how you got the impression that they appear to be in the "middle" of the camp (re-watched my workprint AND the sources) and here's why (with screenshots to illustrate):


Here, we see Amy next to motorhome right after she gets bit by walker:

[Image: YapNvYP.jpg]

Here, VERY briefly, again, we see Amy next to motorhome after Jim kills walker, that bit Amy, with a baseball bat:

[Image: PDVGQj8.jpg]

Here, again very briefly, we see Andrea & Amy next to motorhome in background behind Shane:

[Image: jfNheHT.jpg]

Here, in the "morning" shot, again we see Andrea & Amy next to motorhome in background behind Daryl:

[Image: xR9tUzh.jpg]

In next two screenshots (night & then morning) it appears that Andrea is over Amy's body in the same place in the camp (judging by the tree behind Rick in "night" shot and the SAME tree behind him again in "morning" shot, albeit from a MUCH different angle which is what might be throwing you off):

[Image: GjP5YSp.jpg]

[Image: 5y7hNMg.jpg]


I am NOT arguing with you, just trying to clarify this and see if I my interpretation is wrong here and I'm missing something or if it's the ANGLE of the shot that threw you off (as I could see how it would) I am wondering whether re-inserting the following shot directly after "night" scene BEFORE the shot of Rick walking up to Andrea, would help:

[Image: lO0cDpo.jpg]


Fades: I will see what can be done with the crossfades. Are you suggesting that ALL crossfades should be replaced to fades to black?? This is impossible in certain areas due to limitations in the source (which I explained in last post) but CAN be done in some places. Also, are you suggesting that the white fades (that are originally in the show) should be replaced with black fades or are you only talking about the "extra" white fades that I used?

Audio: hopefully, I will be able to have a "final" workprint cut available by the end of the week where those exact timecodes will be necessary for the audio...


AGAIN, THANK YOU for ALL your input, time, and suggestions

@jedeitor - please let me know if you will still be giving feedback on the workprint because I would really like to know what you thought and it would help me move this project forward. NO PRESSURE, I realize that everyone has their own life, limited time, etc., just wondering if you are still willing to help

[jedeitor]

Hi!

OK, I have seen just 35 minutes, up until Rick shots the little zombie girl.

My thoughts by now:

* I don't like crossfades. They aren't film-like at all. As spoRv says, fading to black is used in some movies, but those crossfades are more like from home made movies.

* There's a scene around 00:00:55:10, when Rick and Shane place the spikes on the road, that crossfades with they in the car running backwards to form a barrier with another car. It goes like this:

-They place the spikes
-(crossfade) they driving to form the barrier
-The runaway car being chased
-The runaway car going to the spikes and the camera moving to let us see the barrier

I think it would work much better like this:

-They place the spikes
-The runaway car being chased
-The runaway car going to the spikes and the camera moving to let us see the barrier

That way you don't have to use that crossfade and the scene still works.

* There was a moment, when they are in the house and the next second in the police station that I thought: "What did just happen?". I had to rewind and watch it again. It seems I missed the scene of Rick picking up the keys. It has sense, but I think a new viewer would be a little confused until they start talking about the "station" in the showers.

[jerryshadoe]

First of all, thank you for taking the time to give your feedback on my workprint
Now, my comments to your post:

I agree that SOME crossfades are not film-like (although we do see them in some movies for certain scenes and they DO work) and some of the crossfades were inserted due to limitations in available footage to "glue" a scene together. I will consider ALL suggestions and see what the source ALLOWS me to do.

The scene at 55s10frames with them putting the spikes on road and then that damn crossfade to them in the car driving backwards seemed awkward to me since the FIRST workprint and I've always hated that transition. I never thought of just cutting directly to the car chase and you're right (because I already did a "test cut" in the sony vegas project to see how the scene would play out if done this way and BOTH the video and audio work. Thanx for helping me solve a problem that has existed since November

As far as the scene where Morgan, Dwayne, and Rick are in Rick's house, I ONLY edited out the dialog about looters and Morgan's wife, the rest in EXACTLY how it was in the original... that part where they talk about the refugee center in atlanta and the CDC, then Rick gets the keys and all of a sudden they are in police station and then those showers; this is ALL the same in the original. I honestly don't know HOW to change this scene, other than "restoring" it back to the original form, maybe include all the dialog about looters (even though I think it pointless) but still leave out Morgan's speech about his wife and the photos...


Anyway, HUGE thanx for the help so far and look forward to hearing the rest of your comments. Like I mentioned earlier, NOTHING is "set-in-stone" about this workprint and I am open to changing certain things, as long as the source doesn't limit my options at which point I would mention that fact. In fact, I will go back through the workprint myself and list all things, not technically that need correction (like I mention in the post where I give Andrea the Italian track) but that have bothered me since the beginning (or whenever I noticed it) and maybe, once you have also seen it, we could talk about alternatives. Overall, I will say that I like the story that I'm trying to present and the "style," BUT there are NUMEROUS things that still bother me, some of which I'm not sure how to address. I won't double-post, and will wait until someone else makes a post, but I will definitely make a DETAILED list of all "problem" spots.

EXTRA QUESTION ADDED IN EDIT: What did you guys think of my montage of the "Rick mercy killing the half-walker" scene, where I cut out all the Morgan shots to make a single continuous scene?

[jedeitor]

I am happy I could help with that scene!

When I started watching I didn't like that crossfade, and I'm glad you liked my idea.

As for the Rick's House - Police Station scene, it is perfect as it is, then. I surely was a little distracted by something in that moment and that's why I didn't get the scene right, but I don't remember having any problem with that scene when I saw the series the first time, so just leave it as it is. Deleting all of Morgan's wife is a good idea, since it doesn't go anywere in the story.