Looking for the "right" Terminator 2 color grading...

[deleted user]

New lionsgate transfer combined with 2017 remastered with AutoOverlay:
Hybrid vs BD vs Remastered
 

 

Cool. Combined how? Normal 0.5 opacity?

Have you seen my post speculating about adding the grain from the Lionsgate into the remaster? Can you share the script for aligning the two?

[random.next]

Code:

NEWbase=AVISource("M:\MEDIA\T2\NEW.avs")
OLDbase=AVISource("M:\MEDIA\T2\LIONS.avs")

NEW=NEWbase.ColorYUV(off_y=0, gamma_y=0, cont_u=0, cont_v=0).ScriptClip("

tr=2
count=tr*2 + 1

lumaMedian=0.0
chromaMedianU=0.0
chromaMedianV=0.0
ownY = OLDbase.YPlaneMedian() - YPlaneMedian()
ownU = OLDbase.UPlaneMedian() - UPlaneMedian()
ownV =OLDbase.VPlaneMedian() - VPlaneMedian()
for ( i = -tr, tr, 1) {
   curY=OLDbase.YPlaneMedian(i) - YPlaneMedian(i)
   curU=OLDbase.UPlaneMedian(i) - UPlaneMedian(i)
   curV=OLDbase.VPlaneMedian(i) - VPlaneMedian(i)
   lumaMedian=lumaMedian + curY
   chromaMedianU=chromaMedianU + curU
   chromaMedianV=chromaMedianV + curV
}
lumaMedian = (lumaMedian/count)
chromaMedianU = (chromaMedianU/count)
chromaMedianV = (chromaMedianV/count)
ColorYUV(off_y=0, off_u=chromaMedianU, off_v=chromaMedianV)
")

OLD=OLDbase.ColorYUV(off_y=0, gamma_y=0, cont_u=0, cont_v=0).ScriptClip("

tr=2
count=tr*2 + 1

lumaMedian=0.0
chromaMedianU=0.0
chromaMedianV=0.0
ownY = NEWbase.YPlaneMedian() - YPlaneMedian()
ownU = NEWbase.UPlaneMedian() - UPlaneMedian()
ownV =NEWbase.VPlaneMedian() - VPlaneMedian()
for ( i = -tr, tr, 1) {
   curY=NEWbase.YPlaneMedian(i) - YPlaneMedian(i)
   curU=NEWbase.UPlaneMedian(i) - UPlaneMedian(i)
   curV=NEWbase.VPlaneMedian(i) - VPlaneMedian(i)
   lumaMedian=lumaMedian + curY
   chromaMedianU=chromaMedianU + curU
   chromaMedianV=chromaMedianV + curV
}
lumaMedian = (lumaMedian/count)
chromaMedianU = (chromaMedianU/count)
chromaMedianV = (chromaMedianV/count)
ColorYUV(off_y=0, off_u=chromaMedianU, off_v=chromaMedianV)
")

config=OverlayConfig(subpixel=2, branches=1, aspectRatio1=2.3, aspectRatio2=2.45, minSourceArea=70, minOverlayArea=70, minSampleArea=1000, angle1=0, angle2=0.08, debug=false)

OverlayEngine(NEW.ConvertToY8(), OLD.ConvertToY8(), editor=false, upsize="BilinearResizeMT", downsize="BilinearResizeMT", maxDiff=25,  maxDiffIncrease=3, maxDeviation=0.5, backwardFrames=3, forwardFrames=6, configs = config)

debug=false
luma=OverlayRender(NEW.ConvertToYV24(), OLDbase, debug=debug, colorAdjust=2, matrix="",  opacity=0.5, gradient=50, lumaOnly=false, upsize="Spline64Resize", downsize="Spline64Resize", mode=4, width=1920, height=840)
chroma=OverlayRender(NEW.ConvertToYV24(), OLDbase, debug=debug, colorAdjust=0, matrix="",  opacity=0.5, gradient=100, lumaOnly=false, upsize="Spline36Resize", downsize="Spline36Resize", mode=4, width=1920, height=840)
asOld=luma.Overlay(chroma, mode="chroma")
luma=OverlayRender(NEWbase.ConvertToYV24(), OLD, debug=debug, colorAdjust=1, matrix="",  opacity=0.4, gradient=50, lumaOnly=false, upsize="Spline64Resize", downsize="Spline64Resize", mode=4, width=1920, height=840)
chroma=OverlayRender(NEWbase.ConvertToYV24(), OLD, debug=debug, colorAdjust=0, matrix="",  opacity=0.5, gradient=100, lumaOnly=false, upsize="Spline36Resize", downsize="Spline36Resize", mode=4, width=1920, height=840)
asNEW=luma.Overlay(chroma, mode="chroma")
asOld.Overlay(asNEW, opacity=0.5)

small=BilinearResizeMT(width/3,height/3)

Overlay(FilmGrain1(amp=4, r=1.7, seed=0, bitdepth=8), mask=small.Overlay(small.Invert(), mode="darken").ColorYUV(off_y=128, gamma_y=-128).BilinearResizeMT(width,height)).Trim(0,156731) + Trim(156732,0)

ConvertToYV12()

f3kdb(y=48, cb=48, cr=48, grainY=80, grainC=64, seed=1, dynamic_grain=true, keep_tv_range=true)

[deleted user]

Thanks!

[Stamper]

I like it! The transfers have different framing, does this mean we get more image on youre hybrid? Also many shots are reframed differently, does your script align them all nonetheless? I would love a fuller frame release hybrid which remains around 2.20:1 and adds more image than the separate scans.

Wouldn't even mind the ratio to go up and down depending the shots, I'm sure no one would notice.

There's only one problem you might encounter, when there are new VFX integrated (stuff erased, faces swapped). I suggest you keep the updated version as it is the one with the better detail in those cases, while still doing the hybrid thing. You can get off it by using smaller windows where you dial off the 2015 version. The 2015 release is really blurry even if it keeps the grain.

Do you notice how in the desert scene, they dialed off the smoke? It clearly shows the 4K disc was only ever mastered for the 3D presentation.

[random.next]

I'm not sure that I will ever make it. It will take much computer time and my own to check the result.
Just showing that it's possible. Maybe someone else.
With different overlay modes it is possible to format output image as you want.

[zoidberg]

Where to begin...

Terminator 2 in 70mm is absolutely glorious. I hope others here get the opportunity to experience it, I truly do. I actually watched this Sunday night but I wanted to wait till I got back from London to write this.

Considering the film was shot super 35mm the detail on the print was unbelievable. The grain varied from sequence to sequence but even the grainest scenes were far less grainy than 35mm anamorphic. The best scenes were practically grainless. All of the optical/digital effects blended seamlessly. 
Colour Timing wise, the 3D DCP is pretty close with some fairly obvious exceptions. 
The Future War sequence is way too cyan/teal on the 3D. Most of the skeletons/skulls have some white/light grey to them on the 70mm whereas the DCP is blanket shaded. Also the 70mm lasers are purple   and the explosions are more natural looking, not so orange.
The first scene in the hospital ('How's the knee') is more neutral on film with just the barest whiff of green in the shadows. Likewise the review scene is the palest turquoise blue/green. The shots of Silbermann are slightly out of focus but not horrifically so, why they DNR nuked him I don't know.
When the two Terminators meet in the shopping mall corridor it is blue, no green at all. I think all the fluorescents read as blue.
The Truck chase is strikingly warm/golden, like 'magic hour' golden.
All night scenes have cobalt blue, cyans, teals, steel blue, call it what you will. There's even some turquoise in amongst it all. Being photochemically timed however means their tone and shade/intensity varies greatly from shot to shot and indeed within the same shot. This is something that digital grading seems unable (or unwilling) to replicate, which is a crying shame as it's just so gorgeous on film. The DCP grading tends to homogenize/average it (and I'm guessing a ton of secondary corrections and power windows). But it's not just the night scenes, even daytime scenes get a lick or a kiss of steel blue be it in a reflection, a pool of water, puff of smoke, you name it. It's just so lush.
Also of interest, the film had instances (mostly in the desert) of halation which looks remarkably similar to edge enhancement, but is a photochemical artifact.
The 6-track mag was a madman. It pretty much matched the DCP for the mix/dynamics but there was some serious serious bass in the mag print. What struck me was the sheer quality of the mag track, that much analogue audio at whatever insane feet per second it is that 70mm plays. The child's laugh in the Prologue literally could have been in front of me. Also I don't know how but mag handles splices beautifully (there were a few, mostly at reel changes, nothing awful). Also the T-1000's Beretta sound wasn't different.  
Having heard the mag and the DCP I'm going to go on a limb and say that the AC-3 track on the SQZ laserdisc (PILF-2187) is as near as damn it the original mix as we're ever going to get. Nothing else comes close.

An honourable mention goes to the BBFC Certificate and the Guild logo at the start, just the perfect way to start the film. This is the best I could find for all you VHS lovers (except the Guild logo should be gold), start it at 0:38:



There is more for me to say, I just can't think of it now. Please feel free to ask or PM

[CSchmidlapp]

Hey Zoidberg.
Sounds like quite an experience, had I had the time and money I would of joined you
Quick question bud, Was the scene in the bar, at the start of the movie, drenched in blue?

[zoidberg]

Hi CSchmidlapp,
You would have loved it. I know what you mean about the time and money though. Luckily I booked the trip ages ago so it wasn't too bad. The Prince Charles Cinema is pretty well established in London now as a cult/marathon house so I imagine they'll show it again. To answer your question the bar scene is blue but not drenched/blanketed in blue, darker/shadow areas are bluer due to the colour timing process though. It's fairly dark/subdued but everything is legible, there was no black crush to speak of. I'm guessing 70mm comes from an earlier generation than the 35mm anamorphic prints?

[Stamper]

One combination that could be easy is the 4K RM with the 2K RM has both have different framings.

Just preserve the 4K as main, and keep the 2K borders. Should be better than both!

[Chewtobacca]

Being photochemically timed however means their tone and shade/intensity varies greatly from shot to shot and indeed within the same shot. This is something that digital grading seems unable (or unwilling) to replicate...

This pretty much sums up my disenchantment with most digital grading.