Proposal: The James Cameron Project

[Stamper]

If I might add, the True Lies master also lacks correct color saturation. It looks bland, almost black and white.

I also think some of the intertitles like "lake chateau, Switzerland" have been badly remade digitally with the wrong fonts.

[PDB]

I don’t see Abyss on Hulu in the US right now. Perhaps later tonight.

[dwalkerdon]

maksnew was nice enough to send me the new version of TL.

In going through I came away liking the new colors but noticed it has a LOT of problems. From what I'm being told it is probably not from Disney+ but comes from Hulu. That does make a difference as it contributes to making a file that is less the idea.

Here are the problems I spotted:

1. The new master or at least this file has a ton of DNR erasing not only grain but details. I'm hopefully that is just this file being DNR's to make streaming easier and future files will be better.

2. Besides the DNR, the picture is strangely "fuzzy". Kind of like a blur filter added to the transfer. Can't figure that one out.

3. The black levels are way off for the entire file. Sometimes all three channels, sometimes just the blue and green. between the DNR, fuzziness, and elevated black levels, it makes watching the film look like watching it through a cataract.

4. The picture is often blown-out in the brightest parts.

5. The bit-rate is super low. Again that's because it comes from Hulu. If it was from Disney+ it might have a higher bitrate. The lack of bits causes compression artifacts.

So this is a lot worse then the existing (read: old master) Web-DL(s) and I will still be using those for future projects. They just look better regardless of the colors. More details, more grain, etc.

Having said that, I still like to fix this transfer if I can. So I set about seeing what I could do. I used a host of filters and scalers to dig out details from the transfer. I was largely able to get rid of fuzziness of the picture. I was also able to get some grain back but it still had to supplemented. I also adjusted the black level down and added contrast to make the movie more "film-like" while trying to keep the original colors with some slight tweaking. I lowered the highlights to make the picture feel less blown-out.

So this is looking somewhat better then it did before but not perfect. The one thing I can't do is un-DNR the picture. Details lost are details lost and no tool can get those original details back. With that in mind, I'm hoping to release this as a project this upcoming week as the video is done and waiting to be rendered. Although I have a few audio options, I'm only going to include the original Eac3 and maybe the C-DTS. Here are some before and after pics

Orig/Processed
So until a better file appears this should be the best way to view the "new" TL master.

Big thanks to X5 also for lots of info.

I wonder if this new master on D+ and Hulu is a raw scan of the OCN with no grading done to it. It does have more detail than the previous transfer in most areas, but a lot of the close up face shots do in fact looked scrubbed of detail. I wonder if the software that they used automatically applied the DNR.

[Doctor M]

I grabbed the PaODeQUEiJO Disney+ version. Definitely lacks the Cameron Blues. I understand that the D+ and Hulu versions are identical just higher bitrate on D+ (about 6.7GB).

I see what you mean though. There seems to be grain and some shots are nice quality... and then there are blobby soft regions. Maybe someone just bumped the contrast too high... OR the transfer was a 4k HDR and the conversion to SDR was done poorly.

[maksnew]

Since in Russia at the moment there are a number of restrictions on streams, if anyone notices a TL broadcast in 4K on some site or 1080p on Amazon, then let me know in PM or in this thread, the source will be received.

[Doctor M]

I was thinking about the first Avatar film tonight and it occurred to me that there are 3 cuts. "The original theatrical cut (162 minutes), the special edition cut (170 minutes), and a collector's extended cut (178 minutes)"

The thing is, only the original cut is in 3D on home video. IIRC, the special edition was in theaters in 3D, but was never released on disc that way. It might be interesting to have a 3D ultimate edition, where the extra 16 minutes are inserted. I suppose there are methods for artificially rendering them in 3D, but even a 2D half-SBS of those scenes would be nice.

[Bigrob]

I was thinking about the first Avatar film tonight and it occurred to me that there are 3 cuts.  "The original theatrical cut (162 minutes), the special edition cut (170 minutes), and a collector's extended cut (178 minutes)"
The thing is, only the original cut is in 3D on home video.  IIRC, the special edition was in theaters in 3D, but was never released on disc that way.  It might be interesting to have a 3D ultimate edition, where the extra 16 minutes are inserted.  I suppose there are methods for artificially rendering them in 3D, but even a 2D half-SBS of those scenes would be nice.

technically four cuts now. I can't confirm it but for the 4K remastered re-release before Way of Water released, By all accounts there was an extra line or two during the end spoken by Giovanni Ribisi character

edit

just checked IMDB and found the following

The 2022 theatrical remaster featured a preview scene from Avatar: The Way of the Water during the credits. The ending of the remaster included an extended version of most of the remaining humans leaving Pandora, featuring an exchange between Parker and Jake. An exchange where Parker says "you know this isn't over right?" and he is threatened unless he gets back in line. This scene was not included on special edition, Extended Collector cut or it's deleted scenes.

I can confirm this scene (took my kids to see it when it came out) but have not checked the collector's edition Blu-ray

[Doctor M]

Wikipedia says the new version has SOME scenes in 48fps. I have no idea why they do this since home 3D TVs can't support that. They should have gone with 30. It would still be better than 24, cheaper, and releasable on disc... or go 60 and then just drop every other frame for home release.

Btw, checked my disc, and 'you know this isn't over', is not there. Crap, so another new version. My money says it will be a crappy D+ only release. So that's another scene to cut back in.

[Stamper]

I'm not sure, I'm 100% certain that the remastered UHD of Avatar 1 will have that extra scene inserted, in effect making the original release unique. It probably also will be widescreen 2.39:1, as the original Blu-ray was open matte. I also think that the UHD will not have any Special Edition or ultimate cut footage except maybe as bonus 1080p scenes, as they probably were not part of the remastered 4K project.

That way, they can still sell the Blu-ray that came out 12 years back, or even better, bundle it with the UHD of the new TC.

There is one extra cut which can be made, which is the extended edition with the theatrical opening instead of the earth opening. You can assemble it by seamless branching. I don't like the Earth opening, so I made one mkv with that much more efficient intro, just to see how better the extended would work without it. Alternatively, you could cut the Earth intro into the SE and the extended versions, making thus 3 different edits in total, still by seamless branching, if you like! Remember, the Earth stuff was the last cut Cameron made of the film, he took it out, so it was almost there.

[stwd4nder2]

Speaking of Avatar, does anyone know anything about the EXTENDED.MULTi.TRUEFRENCH.2160p.HDR.WEB-DL.HEVC.DTS-HD.MA-MenZo release? It's labeled web-dl but it looks more like an upscale/re-grade of the blu-ray (I've also seen it labeled as a DCP but it's definitely not that). The official HDR grade has only been released theatrically, correct?