[proposal] Robocop - Theatrical Cut

[BDgeek]

So what is the best audio for either cut?

My money's on the LD PCM for the TC, which is my preferred cut.  Fans of the DC might find that a hybrid track based largely on the LD PCM from the TC turns out to be the best option.

I would bet on the LD as well. The TC is also my favorite cut.

This Japanese LD PILF-7303 release from 1994 was the last incarnation of the TC and it was issued by Columbia/Sony, so I'd guess it features the best soundtrack for original audio.

BTW, does anyone have the PCM 5.1 from the unreleased Sony BD?


Ps: But man, look at the coveart on this beauty
SF078-5300 Japanese 1st press

[Dek Rollins]

I just looked at my Arrow copy finally and after checking the TC, I would have to say that the only shot that stood out to me as out of place was this one:



The others blended just fine to my eyes.

Regarding the DC audio, just listening to Murphy's death screams one mix after the other, I would have to say that the 4.0 mix sounded better than the 2.0 version. While it makes sense that the LD PCM would be the best bet, can't it be assumed that the restored 2.0 and 4.0 tracks are virtually the same? With the exception of the altered/restored bits in the DC? Has someone compared the Arrow tracks to LD captures?

[Stamper]

BDgeek the PCM from the Sony 5.1 is just a crap remix without any impact.

It can be found on the Sony Blu-ray disc which is available on the internal organ or that russian site.

Finally I decided not to bother and just muxed the LD track and the LD french track to the Sony image.

[crissrudd4554]

BDgeek the PCM from the Sony 5.1 is just a crap remix without any impact.

It even sounded like crap on the 2001 DVD. Frankly the Image DVD is the only DVD release of the TC where I was happy with the sound mix.

[Stamper]

In regards to the DC, I think it's badly made and is of no interest, it's like watching a film which is perfect, where some clips of the rough cut have been inserted in places.

At this point there are 3 different versions of the DC + nearly 10 variations of the mix in the changed moments (2.0, 4.0 & 5.1) this is too confusing.

TC all the way. The film in it's purest form.

[captainsolo]

I got the Arrow release despite not being a huge fan of the film and am really impressed by the work they put in.

To me the 4.0 should be the untouched multitrack master made prior to mixing into Dolby stereo SR for the release and thus there could be some fluctuations caused in that thus making the 2.0 mixes we've known be a tiny bit different. The 4.0 should be the best in terms of fidelity is 100% untouched. The 5.1 mixes I've heard before and wasn't very impressed with. They don't change much but it renders some moments puny and all I had to compare to was the Criterion DVD audio.

I've only ever seen the DC. I was under the impression the TC merely cut down the violent bits-however to me that does seem like a good thing because Verhoeven's overzealous sensory overload style has always to me bordered on being cartoonish. I get the artistic intent but that is the little thing that has nagged at me every time seeing Robocop.
Is the TC really better?


In terms of the new Arrow release I think they did a great job with what was provided and made an amazing package for $25 blowing Criterion and other labels out of the water as usual.
But I'm seeing here perhaps some suggestions on what could be done better. Am I correct in that you guys are talking about the only hiccups being shot by shot regrading of the DC inserts to try and better massage them into shape and/or the vice versa with recreating the TC? I'm sure they did the best they could with what is available and what MGM let them access. In any case they did a hell of a lot more work than anyone else has.

[Chewtobacca]

Yeah, I've no doubt that Arrow did the best with what MGM gave them.  It's the shots sourced from an older master that stand out a bit, but it's inevitbable really.

The TC's better in my book because the violence is too gratuitous in the DC.  And keeping track of all the audio shenanigans makes my head ache, so I prefer to keep things simple and stick with the unadulterated PCM from the LD.

[CSchmidlapp]

Its an amazing release captainsolo.
Better than I thought it ever could be.

I'm very familiar with the film and knew it very well due to over-watching it as a teenager, when I got the Criterion DVD in the late 90's the additional material stood out and to be honest took me out of the movie.
Mainly because I just knew the TC so well.
The arrow disc's restoration of the TC is brilliant and I'm sure the shot differences are only noticeable to people who know what there looking at.

At that, I did get to see a 35mm print around 2010, it was pretty beat up and color wise looked much more like the Sony Disc. Although I think this is probably due more to the characteristics introduced by the stock used for the 35mm release print's.
The MGM 4k or Arrow disc probably represent the OCN or IP very closely, which as you know is fairly typical of how we get scans now (The TC shots have been color corrected to match this from an older master)
I'm still unsure if they adjust the IP / IN to compensate for the release prints character (?) but it does seem studios don't take the look of the final release print into consideration when producing new masters. It certainly explains why we get such alot of inconstancy between 35mm presentations and Video ones.

So with that in terms of if a project exists, even though we have the definitive release, I think it does

[Dek Rollins]

Since I watched the DC first, I may be biased, but I prefer it to the TC. The dark humor of the ED-209 scene works a lot better with the cartoonish length of time he's being shot. On the other side of things, Murphy's death is, to me at least, a lot more horrifying when we see more of his mutilation. Not to mention that in the TC we don't even see his arm get shot off, so when it cuts back to him it just disappears. The wide shot of Lewis kneeling over his body is beautiful, and I really love the full length puppet shot when Clarence finishes him off. Also, I think the alternate take of the "Give the man a hand!" part is better in the DC.

I definitely think that the TC has merit and I don't have anything against people who still prefer it. That's why this thread is here after all. I love that the Arrow release gives us a choice.

To captainsolo, definitely watch the TC if the excessive violence in the DC wasn't your cup of tea.

About the color, CSchmidlapp, do you mean that the print you saw had a more greenish/blueish tinge? The only films I've seen on 35mm are a few Kubrick pictures, but those projections had a very similar look to how the MGM RoboCop master looks. Just in the way the contrast/color looked. So, to my eyes, the remaster feels very faithful to 35mm projections in general, but it doesn't necessarily reflect the theatrical color that RoboCop actually had.

[CSchmidlapp]

@Dek Rollins. Yes bud, more blue/green.
It looked pretty much like the Sony blu from memory, but with more saturation to it.
The first and last reel had gone a little pink, and it recently crossed my mind that maybe they we're patched from different prints or something!