Ashes of Time (1994) Theatrical Cut

[shiftyeyes]

BTW, the guys over at the Star Wars Trilogy forums appear to have a contact who has a 35mm print of Ashes of Time, though there's no notes on which version or the quality.

As for my own efforts, still fiddling around. I upscaled the end sequence from Mei Ah and cleaned it up the best I could frame by frame using Photoshop. I found the Mei Ah disc had the best shadow detail during this sequence. Here's a preview for those curious.

[banzo95]

I just got registered here because of this thread. I've always been fascinated about the different cuts of Ashes of Time. Did you guys ever read this? There are interesting infos about the original colour. http://www.davidbordwell.net/blog/2008/1...hes-redux/

[shiftyeyes]

I've seen the David Bordwell article and it certainly has some useful information. It's the best source I've found that discuss the history of this film and its various versions.

On another note, springing from this Ashes of Time obsession, I started reading the new English language translations of The Legend of the Condor Heroes as well as watching the first of the Shaw Brothers adaptations. Also picked up the 1983 TVB version.

[shiftyeyes]

Does anyone have any information about the Taiwanese edit of this film? A while back, I read a bit of trivia about the Taiwanese version retaining a shot of actress Joey Wong due to contractual reasons, and assumed this referred to that really brief, random shot of Huang Yaoshi and a mystery woman during the end montage. I did notice the music for this sequence is very awkwardly edited when I was putting together the upscale I've been working on. I came across this clip today while Googling this. A whole few seconds of a sequence that's not on the Mei Ah or Pony Canyon DVDs! The mystery of Ashes of Time deepens!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N_67NlpqsG0

[banzo95]

Whoa, great catch! In another video containing the same shots I found this comment: "Yesterday, at Beijing Normal University, Wong Kar-Wai explained the mystery of Joey Wong’s removal from Ashes of Time. At the time, Jeff Lau was under scheduling pressure to finish his Eagle Shooting Heroes, so he released Joey and ‘lent’ her to Lau."

Just to give an idea on how much footage was left behind, here is a segment of an interview with Patrick Tam: https://postimg.cc/QVDLMmPz (Patrick Tam: from the heart of the new wave, edited by Alberto Pezzotta)

[banzo95]

Also, I came across the very old trailer which, compared to the international cut, shows new footage of Brigitte duelling against her own reflection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6xJtI-uvI0.



I'm absolutely not a Redux fan but I really like how that scene was cut and edited there. The missing shots makes everything more "light". In the french dvd that scene is missing and somehow it makes Brigitte's character more fragile and tragic. Only downside is they kept the shot of the bird on the tree during the dialogue between Ouyang Feng and Murong Yang/Yin, which is useless now because it's no more a link to the following lake scene. I'm not certain but I feel the scene was originally there and so it was kept in the Redux.

https://postimg.cc/758g2BvF

1-TF1 DVD

2-Artificial Eye Redux DVD

[shiftyeyes]

I never thought about that shot of the the lake and the following lake scene being missing from the French edit! Personally, I prefer the original version of the lake scene over the Redux version. I like the operatic quality of Murong Yin/Yang screaming that was excised from the Redux version.

[banzo95]

Finally I got my hands on the Pony Canyon DVD! It's crazy that even its bonus trailer differs from the movie itself... I made a little comparison here(https://postimg.cc/MnGqFBrZ). I feel that between all the Redux bs, there are some shots that could acualy be pretty close to its original look, for exemple the sky in the last pic is by far the best one.

The order in the comparison: 1-Bonus trailer from Pony Canyon DVD, 2-Pony Canyon DVD, 3-Mei Ah DVD, 4-TF1 DVD, 5-Artificial Eye Redux DVD.

[shiftyeyes]

The question of color timing is an interesting one. Pre-release trailers aren't usually timed properly. And Redux is a mess, often with blanket yellow tints and the like. That David Bordwell article is also in favor of the Redux version but I think the example he provides looks far worse in Redux than the 35mm shot he provides, which has stronger reds. Maybe it's similar to Wong Kar Wai's recent restorations where the new digital color timing tools were being used to capture something of the intended look, but they went a bit overboard. The photochemically color timed prints often look more natural and subtle than WKW's digital grades, which often look like he just asks them to dial up the green or yellow.

For the upscale I've been working on, I chose to go more towards the Mei Ah look, which I found pleasing overall. Generally, it seems to favor reds more. For the most recent iteration, I'd grown a bit fonder of the subtler TF1 look and sort of split the difference.

[eledoremassis02]

Jet Tone Films Instagram posted that on the 30th there will be somthing regarding a Ashes of Time Collection, with a snapshot of the title from the theatrical cut